Finally, recovering straight on a CLH trailer?

[Graham W]

Matthew,

I haven't really encountered bad bow-stuck-on-beam misery since last spring, when I attached a stainless plate coated with lanolin grease on top of the beam to reduce friction with the stem.  But the winch post could have been severely weakened by several earlier jamming incidents.  These would have been caused partly by changing from 10" to 13" wheels last winter as part of the conversion of the trailer from unbraked to braked.  This would have raised the swinging beam by 1.5" - enough apparently to cause a jam.

Anyway, the replacement winch post support has already arrived and lookee here, it's been subtly modified from the original.  I'd say that that small extra strut will help deal with stresses from a number of directions.  I may still get a larger support beam attached to the front of it this winter.

I like your idea of temporarily raising the ball hitch end of the trailer on retrieval.  There's nothing obvious on the market to help with this, as far as I can see.  Probably because they don't want to be sued by some idiot (e.g. me) driving off with it still in place.

[Edwin Davies 2]

Being a belt and braces type I have fitted an all over strap over the hull in line with the axle and a secondary strap to the bow u-bolt with an independent fastening.  The over the boat strap saved my bacon, and the furniture I was transporting, when the winch strap broke  going up a steep hill in Lincoln with an Orkney Longliner full of table, sideboard and four chairs!

[Rob Johnstone]

It's amazing what you learn on this forum - I didn't realise there were any hills in Lincoln, let alone a steep one!

[Andy Dingle]

On the contrary Rob. It is a common misconception that Lincolnshire is all flat fen land, however a large proportion is hilly, with some quite big (ish!). We even have our own 'Marilyn' - a take off of the great Monroes of Scotland - at 551 feet! In the Lincolnshire Wolds (where I live).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincolnshire_Wolds

The city of Lincoln has the aptly named Steep Hill that I challenge the fittest of us all to take a trot up!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steep_Hill


To stay on subject I share the consternation re the failure of Graham's trailer - that could have been utterly disastrous had it not been discovered - doesn't bear thinking about if it came off on the road..
Incidentally. I was talking to a chap just a week ago or so, with an immaculate 'new-to-him' Etap 21 - he had just handed over the money and was towing it home when a wheel came off. He got off fairly lightly as the boat was properly strapped down with just some scrapes down the hull and rudder damage
I know with previous boats I had been almost criminally neglectful of my trailers, but now I like to think I take more attention, thanks to the awareness brought about by people raising these issues.

I cant recall what your BC23 trailer is like? But I have one of the newer Snipes that I think is pretty well made - although like you I have no end of problems with setting up the rollers and still not right. I've now got a secondary winch (tho' not strictly necessary, I now think) to winch her back off the trailer. Let you know how I get on with that.

Pic attached of the winch post - I'm not sure about the smaller Snipe trailers (now standard for Swallow Yachts) but a quick look at their website seems that they are similar in design as mine.

Cheers

Andy
BC23 Equinox 25

[Graham W]

Andy,

That's what a well-engineered winch post should look like - more like the Shard and less like the Leaning Tower of Pisa.

I may have already induced paranoia about trailers but I think that there's one more thing to check.  Actually there are probably several more things to check (Donald Rumsfeld's unknown unknowns).  The photo below shows that the clamp plates at the foot of the failed winch support base were quite heavily deformed, which wouldn't have helped the weld to stick together.  A possible cause of this might be over-tightening of the bolts, although it wouldn't have been by me.  The bit nearest the camera is the port side, which was still vaguely attached after all the other sides of the weld had split apart.

[Matthew P]

I'm starting to feel paranoid too. I'm wondering what happens if the winch strap is wound very tight and the boat locked in place by the main straps, and then the trailer frame flexes - which it will during towing. Could the winch strap then be tugging against its support post with considerable and fluctuating force but no "give" anywhere?  To avoid this the winch strap should be firm enough to avoid the boat rolling back but not under great tension.  As with lots of engineering problems the trick is providing stiffness where it is needed but allowing for flexing where almost irresistible forces may meet almost immovable objects.  Engineering-in too much stiffness into structure is generally expensive, heavy and breaks weaker stuff around it.  Could get philosophical on this.

Matthew
BR20 Gladys

Please note again - I'm not an expert and the above are personal opinions, not recommendations - readers should use their own judgement or get professional advice!

[Rob Johnstone]

More on Vagabond's CLH trailer.
At long last, I think I've got the set up right.
At the risk of being tedious I have moved the rear rollers (the two sets of four that sit on posts attached to the swinging arm) further apart so that the outer rollers of each set are just outside the two "bilge keel" runners. This overcomes the "stop" provided by these "keels" when trying to launch but also lifts the stern of the boat up a bit (when on the trailer) which gives more clearance between the hull and those dreaded steel mudguards.
 
I also liberally sprayed silicon lubricant on the axles of each roller. The result is that  Vagabond slides off the trailer without the need of the Mo Mentum effect that I mentioned much earlier in this thread.

My concerns that the about recovery in this new layout were unfounded. Not only did the the rollers guide the bow up nicely above the swinging arm but they held the boat both straight and centred as she was winched up. The bonus was that the effort required on the winch seemed much less that before.

It's only taken four years to sort this out!

[Graham W]

I was at the yard the other day, complaining vociferously about the trailer, as is my wont.  Matt mentioned that a kit is being developed to overcome swinging cradle misery.  This is the misery caused by the bow jamming against the swinging cradle beam when the boat is being winched on to the trailer, not the misery caused by it going on squint.

The kit comprises stops on each of the lengthwise trailer beams to prevent the cradle from swinging fully horizontal, allied with longer fore and aft arms holding the rear roller assemblies.  Apparently the kit helps lift the bow up and over much more effectively. Watch this space!

[Brian Robertson]

I had CLH make me a couple of small roller brackets to fit to the centre of the swinging arm - I think this is also what Matt has in mind.  Tried the new fitting for the first time last weekend when I took Amy Pearl out of the water for her winter snooze.  The brackets worked a treat, effortlessly raising the bow over the cradle.

Graham, I share your pain over failing winch posts.  The same thing happened to me a couple of years ago (http://www.swallowyachtsassociation.org/smf/index.php/topic,847.msg5208.html#msg5208) after trailering over some very rough west Highland roads.  I never got to the bottom of why it failed but the reinforced post that CLH sent me as a replacement has been solid as a rock.

[Graham W]

Brian,

I hadn't spotted that you had had an identical problem with the base of your CLH winch post.  This suggests that it's not just a general trailer problem but more importantly it's also a structural weakness with that CLH part, perhaps only for trailers of a certain vintage (we're both 2010, I think).

I would therefore recommend that anyone with that particular winch post inspects the weld around the base regularly and if doing a lot of trailering on bumpy roads or over mountains, gets the post properly reinforced on the front side. I think we're both very lucky that we spotted the weld problem before it caused an accident.

I'll post photos of the swinging cradle mods when I get my boat back in a couple of months.

[Peter Taylor]

I don't think I posted this before in the "swinging beam" thread but I have noticed that in the video of Matt recovering his BC23 there are some extra central rollers on the swinging beam which my trailer does not have. These rollers appear to be designed to make the swinging beam swing!
Peter

[Brian Robertson]

Peter, this is exactly the setup I asked CLH to copy for me   ; and they actually work better that those seem to do in the video (no need to relocate winch strap)

[Andy Dingle]

These rollers, positioned at the centre of the swinging arm came as standard on my BC23 Snipe trailer. The keel rolls onto, and then over them and positions the swinging arm quite well.
I don't see why these couldn't be used on BR20's or Bre's? I imagine they would be cheap and easy to make up and fit.

Regards

[David Hudson]

Interesting pictures from Peter.

My 2015 "state of the art" SBS trailer would be improved by a roller to ease the passage of the bow of my BRe onto the trailer. This I will do before the start of the 2016 season.

It is a shame that the design and engineering excellence displayed in the construction of our boats is not reflected in trailer construction.

[Wave Sweeper]

Well I'm not sure if reading this thread before my trailer winch support failed would have helped or not, but its certainly enlightened me now! Last week I lined up my BR20 and was just starting to wind the winch ( no real tension yet) when the winch started moving at 90 degree to the line of the strop, away from me. I quickly saw that the weld had failed at the bottom of the post in much the same way that Graham's did. I have been in touch with CLH who say they have no idea why this has happened and offered me a replacement for £25plus VAT/carriage. No mention of there being an improved version. Meanwhile a friend has arranged for a welder he knows to repair it and add some strength. The break looks as if it was only ever welded on one of the four sides of the post - amazing that it lasted this long.
I do have a problem with the 12" roller at the back of the trailer and also asked CLH about this. They say that they did not fit this roller and it must have been added by Swallow Yachts. They also cannot supply a 12" roller but suggest I use an 8" one which they can supply.


I have attached a couple of photos but have lots more if anyone is interested.

Any thoughts/suggestions welcome!