Sundry rigging

[Graham W]

Nick and I were wondering if you could replace the forestay with the "non twisting" piece of rope that runs up the inside of assymetric used by the Spitfire (quote 'The optional asymmetric head sail adds a new dimension to the sailing experience. It is operated on a “topdown”
furler so is easily deployed and recovered from within
the cockpit.'). The furling mechanism for this is operated by a continuous loop with the furling drum at the bottom of the non twisting rope. It looks to me as if there would be room for this arrangement as well as the existing roller furling of the jib in the bow of the BC 23.

I discussed it with Matt earlier this week. His concern is that it will weaken the rig, because there no longer is the steel cable of the forestay and he probably has a point, which is why his preferred option is the Aero luff

Rob J

Here's a link to the apparent experts in anti-torsion (anti-twisting furling) lines in the UK, as recommended by Matt: http://www.allspars.co.uk/shop/SelectProd.do?prodId=1256&manufacturer=Allspars&category=Antitorsion%20Rope&name=Allspars%20Torsional%20Cable&model=KTC 

In the USA, Colligo seem to be the principal specialists http://www.colligomarine.com/products/colligo-hardware/luff-and-torque-lines-for-headsails

The rule of thumb for top-down furlers is that the luff of the asymmetric spinnaker should be 105% of the length of the anti-torsion line. I think my asymmetric's luff is 5.48m, which means that the anti-torsion line should be 5.22m long.  Then there's the question (which I can't answer for a couple of weeks until I get my boat back from the yard) as to whether there is enough space between the end of my long bowsprit and the top of my mast for a 5.22m line with a bottom furler and top swivel. Presumably not a problem for anyone with a one-piece carbon fibre mast.  To be continued....

[Rob Johnstone]

How about a half day conference on this at some mutually inconvenient pub in the Midlands?

[Julian Swindell]

I'm up for a pub conference any time. I'm in the Cotswolds, so can reach anywhere up to Birmingham quite easily.

[Andy Dingle]

Quite the best suggestion I've read on these pages Rob...

I can travel.. but needs to be soon before all my pocket money is spent on toys..


Talking of which .. I have just found this site..


www.londonchartplotters.com


Looks really interesting.


Andy

[Bill Rollo]

Andy

probably taking this thread away from its purpose, but I bought a small tablet off London Chartplotters to run the Antares charts of the West Coast last summer. They were incredibly helpful and the Antares charts loaded and ran very well. Still some issues over visibility in sunlight through a case and battery life, though. Neither may be a significant factor in your future magnificence!

best wishes

Bill

[Andy Dingle]

Thanks for the input Bill.

I too looked at the tablets.. I was in the market for one anyway and I thought it would be good to have one with all the charts on.

After some discussion with Steve at London Chart Plotters - he told me he just had some Panasonic Tough Laptops 12 inch touchscreen come in, ex military grade, used from America, that are waterproof and allegedly just about indestructible (we'll see!) - he has loaded a CT F7 model up with charts and nav software for me, with (waterproof) GPS and software he's doing it for £200 with Windows 7 - there a few video's of them on their website that you can marvel at - seeing him wash one off under a running tap in the sink was fairly impressive.

I'm having a 12v charger too so I can charge it off the boat supply.

Given that I get a hardened laptop that I can use on a day to day basis. (I travel very extensively around the world for a living). I didn't think that was too bad.

Let you all know how I get on with it.

Regards

Andy

[Rob Johnstone]

Hmm.
I had looked at using ex military hardened PC as my nav stuff but came to the conclusion they didn't suit me. Admittedly it was a couple of years ago and I couldn't then find one that included a GPS. All the stuff I'd read on the web about getting usb type GPS's working reliably in them put me off. Then there was the issue that you have to leave the screen "up" to see anything and I could see that being damaged in the cockpit, however hardened it was. I could see me being tempted to leave it lying on a seat and, if I had put the lid down, I'd never be able to recover it from the "sleep" that they all seem to go into when you shut the lid down......

In the end I decide that Vagabond would use an Ipad2, using INavX software and (I think) Navionics charts that are purchased on a sort of lease basis that needs renewing every year (£50 last time).
It's  lives in a waterproof box, on a board that sits in the companionway. (see attached photo).
The GPS in the Ipad seems to give a reasonable fix. The downside it that I have to take it out of the box to charge it, although there are new boxes that contain a waterproof cover for the charging sockt. A full charge just about lasts all day, provided the Ipad is set to have low screen brightness or it shuts off for most of the trip. It loses it's fix when it shuts down but picks it up quickly when restarted.
I tend to compromise by having high brightness but an Ipad shut off time of about 20 minutes and, if I'm navigating in a particlularly difficult area, I keep touching the screen to keep the thing live. When on a longish bit of a passage, the ipad is off, and I just hope I've got my tide times and course set right. 
Viewing it in strong sunlight is VERY difficult and I often have to remove the Ipad from it's mountings to read it in some shade. One is then tempted to put it down on the "step" outside the companionway, where upon it slides all over the place. So far it hasn't slid into the cockpit well, or over the side......
I also have a small Garmin chartplotter, which includes an AIS display. That's powered from the boat battery, os I do really know where the GPS thinks I am all the time.....
Sorry, I've gone on a bit.
I'll be interested to hear of your experiences.

Rob J

[Julian Swindell]

I have started using a Sony Xperia android tablet. I had some basic charts loaded last year and it worked quite well, so I am planning to to install the full navionics package, which is about £35 for UK waters. The Xperia is meant to be waterproof to 1.5m, so should be OK for how I use it. It prop it up on the table in the cabin, so it is out of harms way, but I can see it quite clearly. In the cabin it is in shade, so is not too difficult to see in the sunlight, but a bit of a stretch to tap. I have just been rigging up a bungy to stop it sliding onto the floor when the boat rocks.

We are getting a bit off sundry rigging...

[Graham W]

If anyone is considering installing a top-down furler, either now or in the future, it is worth specifying how the head and tack of your asymmetric (and code zero, drifter etc) are reinforced.  The standard SB asymmetric made by Hyde (in 2010 at any rate) has stiff triangular reinforcing patches sewn into the head and tack which means that the sail is reluctant to furl at those points. It gives rise to bat wings (see first photo) that at the head can and almost certainly will foul your jib halyard. The answer is to have sails that are reinforced instead with vertical pieces of webbing sewn in at the head and tack, as in the second photo.  The webbing pieces fold over one another during the furl, banishing bat wing misery.

For those who have bewinged spinnakers like mine, the remedy is to try to soften the reinforcing patches by repeatedly scrunching them by hand.  Failing that, find a sail loft that can unpick the original patches and replace them with webbing and/or softer patches.

[Peter Cockerton]

Graham

After initial trepidation,  the spinnaker has been used on several occasions and i must admit it makes the boat turbo charged and great fun to sail.. We were sensible of course and respected the wind strength and conditions before it was used.

Now the "we" bit, not sure if could manage to use the A.S without crew, the requirement to go forward and leave the tiller with the tamer (partially lifting the centreboard to stop her rounding up", get the sail up, get back and trim it, hold onto A.S sheet, main sheet, tiller and keep a good lookout is manageable even when everything goes ok.

So I’m asking myself if i fit the furling system and have the A,S furled before i launch, have the lines all rigged through the ratchet blocks and the furling control lines fed down to the helm position could i manage it then on my own.

It sounds like you have fitted a top down system, which one did you go for if you have, which supplier did you use and have you had chance to use it in anger yet. The Selden GX £595.00 is the one i have looked at, the Profurl Spinex i have no price for.


Peter

[Graham W]

Peter,

I'm hoping that once I have my issues sorted out, I'll easily be able to handle the asymmetric by myself and therefore use it a lot more. And yes, get it all rigged before leaving the dock. If you have a long enough continuous furler line, you don't even need to go very far forward to do your furling. I have my furling line around each side of the mast and into the cockpit so that I can remember which side of the line does what.

I have a Karver KSF1 which I bought from these people in France (at the time it was much cheaper as they had a large winter discount and delivery was quick) http://www.kmnautisme.com/shop/en/karver-shop/2347-spi-ksf1-emmagasineur.html

Ronstan also do one.

This isn't the end of the expenditure however as you also need an antitorsion rope (I wouldn't use Allspars again to make mine up - KM Nautisme may be able to make one) and a 6mm continuous furler line which, with a bit of determination, you can splice yourself.
 

[Rory C]

  Before ordering my BRe, (still in production so I cannot speak with Swallow experience) I had a share in a Hydro 28 which I would occasionally sail single handed in reasonable conditions. This was only feasible thanks to the Simrad tiller pilot which kept her steady while I coped with a large asymmetric hoisting, gybing, and dropping. (just remembered that I never put the main up when single handed - it wasn't possible to get in on and off the boom alone.) Would motor out of the marina and well  clear of all could enjoy a couple hours of coloured sail both upwind (not very close hauled!) and down.
My thought is would a TP and a small motor bike battery if you haven't got electrics be a cheaper and more useful alternative to more strings? Something I will be considering very carefully after the Caledonian Raid.

[Graham W]

The smaller tiller pilots claim to use upwards of 500mA under load.  So with a standard Pb motorbike battery you probably wouldn't get much more than 30 minutes of full use before needing to recharge. An LiFePO4 battery should give you two or three hours under full load.

[Peter Taylor]

I'm using a Raymarine Tiller Pilot which is proving invaluable in holding the boat on a steady course while I raise/lower the mast and furl/unfurl the sails for going under my local bridge. I've been surprised how little power it seems to use since it only takes significant current when its actually moving the tiller (rather than just holding it for you). the consumption does not seem to be as high as I feared from reading the specs before I chose it.  I'll try to get some actual power consumption numbers when I've had more experience with the boat and am not in perpetual panic mode!

Peter