Self filling ballast tank?

[Julian Swindell]

Just a point that might be of interest. I pumped out my ballast tanks on Sunday, using a cheap submersible bilge pump. Worked a dream, emptied the tanks in 10 minutes. When I went down today to bring her home for the English Raid today (three days later) the tanks had refilled themselves, even though the self bailer was shut. Fortunately, I was able to push it open on the trailer and it all drained out, but a point to watch out for. I didn't want to drive off with an extra 400kg on boards!

[Rob Waller]

I'm not sure what the arrangement is on your boat but I have had something similar on my BRe, when some grit prevented the main bung from screwing tight. I've also had heavy rain fill up the cabin several times, so now leave the spray hood up when I leave the boat.

[Roge]

Self bailers are not good bungs they tend not to seal well, hence you will see keel boats that live on morings with the bailers above the waterline. Any grit or sand will cause seepage, any in advertant grounding or hittting flotsam may slightly distort the things, they work ok but will seap over time. Its the nature of the beast.

[Andy Dingle]

Rob.

Your comment re rain water getting into the cabin of your BRe caused some surprise to me? - Surely this shouldn't be happening, no matter how heavy the rain (or spray) if the hatches are closed.
Do you know what the problem is? Do you know where it is leaking in from?

Are there other BRe owners with this problem - if so surely Matt needs to be made aware.

If my BC leaks in the rain then it would most certainly be heading west back down the M4 ..!

Grateful for any further info on this?


Andy

[Julian Swindell]

I had some rain getting into my cabin through the wash boards. After a lot of investigation I found that the drain holes at the bottom of the Channel the boards slide into were blocked with dirt. The Channel filed up with rain and overflowed into the cabin. After I drilled the holes bigger, there has been no rain inside.

[Peter Taylor]

Andy, you will be pleased to know my BC20 went through all those violent winter storms at the start of the year without any rain water getting in at all despite being moored on the windward side of a jetty exposed to the SW winds (I don't have a choice)!

However one thing I did notice was that the aft ballast tank became full to the brim - that is above the water level in the river. My guess is that, since she sits slightly bow down when the tide is out, rain water in the anchor lockers was draining down the breather tube for the ballast tank rather than going through the proper drain holes!

With regard to self bailers, my experience based on many years of dinghy sailing is that unless brand new, they leak!

Peter

[Andy Dingle]

Thanks Peter. I'll certainly look out for that when I dry out, being predominantly east coast based, that will be a fairly regular occurrence.. at the moment I am hoping to get a (floating) pontoon berth at the GCYC (www.gcyc.co uk) on the Humber (unconfirmed at the moment) - a bit industrial but costs are reasonable, and the sailing is pretty splendid and interesting.
I'm intending being based there for the racing and club based cruising then take her off for cruises in between the occasional flurry of work. - Solent? Wouldn't mind a few days there if you fancy meeting up sometime?

For your info - and of course everyone else - she will be finished in time for the Southampton Boat Show  next week and will be exhibited there if you get the chance to pop in and see the Swallow Boat stand. I'll be there this Friday and again the last Sunday to hitch her up and take her on the anxious tow home...!


Andy - and (for the first time!).. Baycruiser 23 (No. 25) 'Equinox'

[Peter Taylor]

Hi Andy,
I'm planning to visit the show on Friday (and one or two other days since, as a decrepit OAP living in Southampton,  I get in for free!). It would good to meet, any idea when you'll be at the SB stand?
Peter

[Andy Dingle]

Peter. That can't be bad ..  free bus pass and a free ticket in to SBS..!

I shall be there about midday I would think - say 1.00 pm?..  I have to drive down from the wilds of Lincolnshire.. (Here be dragons..). Look forward to meeting you - and hearing your thoughts on my electrical/instrument set up..?!

Andy

[Peter Taylor]

Hi Andy,

I'll loiter around the SB stand at around 1pm (and probably other times of the day too!). Be very interested to get a tour of your boat, she looks really good in the Facebook pics.

Free bus pass? you haven't tried Southampton buses!

Peter

[Peter Taylor]

Now... electrically filling ballast tank! After discussion at the Southampton Boat Show and a bit of research by me, Matt provided me with a Johnson Flexible Impeller Ultra Ballast Pump (F4B-11) (!) to replace the Whale pump fitted by SB which was infuriatingly slow. Ballast pumps are used on wakeboard tow boats to fill and empty ballast tanks in order to make the boat heel and shape the wake. Hence the pump is reversible. Matt wanted see how well one would work in a SB.

Installed in my BC20 it takes about 6 minutes to fill the aft tank to hatch level plus another two minutes top up once the water has flowed through to the forward tank, consuming about 1.5 Ah in the process. Emptying took about 11.5 minutes spread over 26 minutes (due to the time it takes for water to flow from the forward tank). Consumption was 1.8 Ah (compared to an estimated 5 Ah and 45 minutes pumping for the Whale). 

The installation design was governed by wanting to reuse the plumbing already fitted in the boat. The power is switched at my fuse board in the cabin and then controlled by a fill/off/empty switch in the cockpit. The inlet/outlet is via an existing  through hull fitting in the starboard cockpit drain well next to the outboard well. A better idea might be to have a pipe with strainer immersed in the outboard well since it would be easy to look to see if it was working OK.

Since I regularly fill or empty the ballast tanks while sailing (similar to putting in or taking out a reef) it will be a great improvement. No more wet sleeves when filling, and no more dunking a submersible pump through the hatch to empty!

Picture of the pump during installation attached. More pump test details on my seatern.org.uk blog under Equipment Summary and details of installing it via the September diary page.

[Andy Dingle]

I like this Peter.. 

I'd be interested in your feed back after you have had time to fully test this.

As you know I have had an electric pump fitted as well as the (back up) manual on my 23, with the idea of 'adjusting' ballast in and out whilst sailing - though as yet I have no idea of how effective this might be!
But I've always thought the 'hand down the hole and pull out the bung' system of filling the tanks was a bit primitive - but probably left in as a fail safe back up to fill your ballast tanks.

Isn't it typical though that something new comes out just after you have bought the old ...!

Andy

BR20 No.12 'Psalter'
BC23 No.25 'Equinox'

[Tony]

The simplest water ballast system I have seen was on a small GRP lugger with a lute stern (named a Hastings Lugger, I think.)  It consisted of a "under floor" tank and 3/4"  hole through the  hull so it was open to the sea. A breather with a simple tap was fitted to the top of the tank.
Launch the boat and only a little water enters the tank. Open the breather tap and it fills completely.  It didn't seem to matter if the tap was closed or open while sailing. On recovery, the water simply drained away as the boat was winched onto the trailer - if the tap was left open, that is.
This gave you the options of sailing without ballast, or filling the tank while sailing if things got too exciting. Obviously, once full, the tank stays full until the boat is hauled out. I don't know how well such a system would work on a larger boat with multiple ballast tanks.
I saw the lugger reviewed (quite favourably) in a copy of "The Boatman" or an early copy of "Watercraft" magazine years ago but have not been able to track it down on the Net.

Peter, do I take it that you are set up to use the electric pump to fill the tanks as well as empty them?  I think for safety's sake I'd like the tanks to fill without any electric power being needed. Either gravity or a hand pump would do for me.
I do, however like the idea of varying the amount of ballast while sailing. As you suggest, it probably is at least as good as reefing and a lot less effort! For a single hander it's got to be safer to flick a switch to increase your ballast than to muck around tying in reefing points. No need to heave to or take your eye off the traffic, either.

[Peter Taylor]

Peter, do I take it that you are set up to use the electric pump to fill the tanks as well as empty them? ....
I do, however like the idea of varying the amount of ballast while sailing. As you suggest, it probably is at least as good as reefing and a lot less effort!

Hi Tony, yes I now fill the tanks electrically - however if that fails I can still open the self bailer and fill them by gravity. As far as varying the ballast it's only a case of "full or empty" and once they are full and the wind is increasing I still have to reef!  If I go out in the early morning it tends to be tanks empty>tanks full>one reef> and so on until the wind drops in the evening and I have to motor home! 

As regards the "hole in the hull lugger" I'd be worried that for a BC20 the air in the tanks would compress to the extent that it let in enough water to start destabilising the boat. However I am thinking about fitting a breather with tap in the aft tank to avoid having to leave the hatch open while the front tank catches up with the aft tank.

I'd be interested in your feed back after you have had time to fully test this.

Andy, I don't think there will be much to report! The only problem I foresee with my setup at present is that I don't have anything to prevent garbage being sucked up and damaging the impeller. I need to fit a grid or implement my "strainer in the outboard well idea" which I wish I'd thought of earlier. Impeller wear may be a problem over time (the makers recommend annual replacement - but then they would wouldn't they!). But I'm not running the pump that much and it self primes very quickly. Ideally the pipes should be arranged so a little water stays in the impeller chamber. I almost managed that!
Peter