With or without Ballast?

[downsizer]

Morning all,

I have a new secondhand BR20 and am downsizing from a boat where the ballast was fixed and permanent. If I'm marina based should I leave the ballast in or out when I leave the boat afloat? Or doesn't it matter? The masts will be up.

[Graham W]

Philip,

When I was moored at Pwllheli Marina, I always left my ballast out, for three reasons:
1.  I don't want lurgy growing in the tank
2.  If I leave my cockpit self drainers open (in my case the self bailers in the sump) then I want the cockpit sole to be as high above the waterline as possible when moored, so that water only washes around in the sump and then not very much of it
3.  I try to sail without ballast, unless I have nervous passengers or reefing right down isn't enough

[downsizer]

Hi Graham,
Thanks very useful and sound logic, thanks

Philip

[Julian Swindell]

My Baycruiser may not be so relevant to you, but I always leave the ballast water in. I nearly always sail solo, and it is just nice to have a stable boat when you are on your own. I have not had anything grow in the tank other than a very small trace of sliminess. No weeds, barnacles, etc seem to grow in complete darkness. The one time I did leave it unballasted overnight, when we were at the English Raid last September, the tank filled up by the next morning anyway from leakage around the self bailer/filler.

[downsizer]

Julian, Thank you for this. Initially I'll be sailing in Chichester harbour and the eastern Solent. Outside the harbour I'll start with the ballast in! My question really concerned the boat when left afloat and I'll try it dry, partly to keep the floor well above the waterline and see how much it leaks. Previous owner claimed that he had very rarely had ballast in.

all the best

Philip

[Peter Taylor]

I have the ballast tanks full when my BC20 is at the jetty even though I sometimes sail with them empty. The reason is that when there is a gale I want to minimise the amount of wind induced heel to try and avoid the mast and rigging getting damaged by fouling the jetty (attached photo shows Seatern being healed by the wind during one of last winters violent storms despite full tanks and despite the boom, mainsail, jib and mizzen having been removed!).

If you are on a marina pontoon the risk is less but I'd check that the mast can't get entangled with other masts if your boat heels and a neighbour doesn't.  Also make sure that if your boat heels the fenders will stay in place and not get scooped up onto the pontoon. I think my vote would be to have full tanks just in case!

I did check the inside of the tanks recently and like Julian says - nothing grows in the darkness, there's just a slight sliminess.

Peter

[Guy Rossey]

[quote author=Peter Taylor
Peter,
looking at the picture Seatern being healed, was there any reason why the spray hood was up ?

___________________
Guy
Catchando Bay (BR #48)

[Colin Morley]

I have sailed my BR20 without the water ballast many time but recently I have always sailed with the tank full....if I remember. The reason is because it feels more steady and safe and I don't notice any difference in speed.

[david]

Hi Colin, I have to agree with you on not noticing that much of a difference in speed with the ballast in. I was out in good wind over the weekend, I averaged between 6 and 7 knots with full ballast while out on the ocean. (Top speed recorded on the GPS was 7.4knots). I even achieved 6 knots down wind coming into the harbour.

You can see it was pretty comfortable as I was able to control the boat and film at the same time!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9YPv84AOwo

[Peter Taylor]

looking at the picture Seatern being healed, was there any reason why the spray hood was up ?

Hi Guy, knowing that there was a major storm coming I got the sails, boom, mizzen mast etc. off to reduce windage and weight aloft. I left the spray hood up so that I could still get in and out of the cabin when it was raining.  Once the wind increased it seemed better to leave it totally secured rather than start undoing things and risking bits flapping around.  Normally the spray hood is below the jetty level so contributes relatively little to the windage compared to the mast.  The photo was taken at a time when there was not only a gale but also a storm surge so Seatern is much higher than she normally would be!

You can see it was pretty comfortable as I was able to control the boat and film at the same time!

...and do it all wearing just a tee-shirt (envy, envy!)

Peter

[Rock Doctor]

Hi All,
interesting discussion vis a vis ballast, this is related but not directly in tune with the thread.

I usually sail Gryphon (BR20) without ballast and reef when necessary to reduce power and get the old girl under control (my boat that is).

Anyway this past weekend I with a group from the Old Gaffers of WA had a rally of sorts on the Harvey Inlet south of Perth and the wind strength was 25 kts +/- gusting to 30 + and this was just a seabreeze.

I was sailing solo so ballasted on the water and sailed it off before I recovered Gryphon the following day. On getting home I found that there was significant water in the front buoyancy tank suggesting a leak between the ballast tank and front buoyancy.

This is annoying as you well know accessing the front tank is somewhat difficult to say the least and draining and drying it is another issue altogether. Is there any experience of this amongst the assembled BR20 aficionados? More to the point how to find and fix the leak.

Tomorrow's job is to drain this #$@! tank.

Regards to all from OZ
  Chris Robinson

[Graham W]

Chris,

I can't really help on the mending part but no doubt someone else on the forum can give sound advice.  But for locating the leak in a hard-to-get-to place, I would use my weatherproof digital camera plus a torch on a stick of some sort.  I have a Panasonic DMC-FT5 (about £250 in the UK), which can be connected to a smartphone or pad over wifi so that you can see in real time what the camera is looking at.  If you can't do that last bit, put the camera in video mode and waggle it about a bit for later viewing.  On a BR20, it's probably easier to flood the forward flotation tank and watch what happens to the front bulkhead of the ballast tank, rather than vice versa.

[Julian Swindell]

Hi Chris
Is your Bayraidr GRP or epoxy ply. I had a leak into my BC20 forward buoyancy tank from the ballast tank below. In theory it was impossible. In practice, the epoxy fillet around the panel between the tanks was not as robust as intended. Swallowboats repaired it, with not a drop getting in since, but I think it was quite a big job. The final panel on any enclosed tank in epoxy ply is always a bit dodgy as you can't get under it to smooth the fillet in the tank. This means the external fillet has to be absolutely solid.
I have also heard of leaks on GRP BR 20s due to mastic seals not being 100%, but can't comment personally on that.

[Rock Doctor]

Graham and Julian,
thanks for your comments. My BR20 is GRP. Graham, your camera idea sounds great especially the "live feed" via Bluetooth. Will try that to determine what the source of water ingress is.

Julian your comments are quite helpful to my understanding of what may have failed or been insufficient to start with. Now to 1. figure out what/where the leak is then 2. fix it.

As this tank is hard to access have either of your heard of anyone who has installed a hatch on the deck to access this area for drying at least.

Thanks again and will post my comments on any findings later.

[Graham W]

My BR20 has a small inspection hatch under the foredeck, set vertically into the front bulkhead and to the left of where the spinnaker tube comes through.  Not the easiest place to see what is going on in the forward tank, let alone using it for access to mend a leak. 

The prototype BR20 had a spinnaker launching tube set into the foredeck.  This was abandonned in later production models, presumably because it let in too much water.  I think the seals in a foredeck inspection hatch might do something similar over a longer period of time.  I base this opinion on the general leakiness of most of the inspection hatches on my boat, especially those installed in horizontal surfaces.