BRe questions

[Jonathan Stuart]

The BR & BRe, unlike BayCruisers, have a single 300l ballast so there is no need to pump between tanks. The only pumping required is to empty the tank when you don't want to rely on gravity and self-bailers.

[Graham W]

The only pumping required is to empty the tank when you don't want to rely on gravity and self-bailers.

....or on a decent hand pump (which you should probably have for safety reasons anyway) and which can probably clear the tank in about 10 minutes.

[Jonathan Stuart]

Graham's absolutely right - a hand pump is essential and then an elec pump too if you wish, but not in lieu of the hand pump.

[maxr]

Thanks Graham and Jonathan. When you empty the tank by gravity on recovery, do you have to leave the boat with just the the bow winched onto the trailer for a few minutes, or can you winch the boat all the way onto the trailer with the tank almost full then slowly drive a few yards off the launch area to derig and fully empty the tank? I'm thinking of (at times) busy slips like Itchenor in Chichester Harbour where you can get queues of boats being recovered.

[Graham W]

As a BR with a full tank is still not much heavier than an equivalent Drascombe, whenever I've winched up in that state, I haven't waited for the tank to empty before moving away from the ramp.  It's probably best not to leave the general area until the tank is empty.

[Peter Taylor]

I think Peter's data is saying that one complete tank emptying consumes around 20Wh. 

That's correct - a similar amount for both the Johnson pump I now use and the Rule bilge pump which I used to use.  In contrast the Whale needed more like 60Wh!  To use the Rule bilge pump I just stuck it through the hatch into the ballast tank and put a hose over the side of the boat.  I queried whether the Rule pump (being submersible) could be left continuously submerged but was told not, hence I'm now using the Johnson pump which is situated in the cockpit locker and plumbed in. 

You should certainly have a hand pump; in the BC20 the hand bilge pump can be diverted to pump out the ballast tank.  Pumping by hand was faster than using the electric Whale but slower than the rule or Johnson pumps.  Hand pumping is good exercise but too much of a distraction when in the company of other boats and ships!

The problem of waiting for the forward tank to drain into the aft tank applies to BC20's but apparently not to BR/BRe's.

Peter

p.s. the consumption figures were obtained using a Watt meter sold for use with radio controlled models. It integrates the power used as well as indicating instantaneous and peak values - very useful for checking electrics when you have only a limited power supply, photo attached.

[Peter Taylor]

I gather from other posts here that charging a battery from an outboard is a much slower process than running the battery down. So, you can't just turn both the outboard and the ballast pump on and squirt power in one end of the battery and out the other - especially as e.g. a 6hp Tohatsu outboard claims to generate 5A and this pump can use 12A.

If you are using a lead acid battery you can "squirt" 5A into it and it will either charge the battery or offset the current you are drawing.  However I don't know if  the Tohatsu will give 5A at the sort of revs you are likely to be using with a BRE, somehow I doubt it.  On the other hand lithium batteries tend to be limited with regard to the speed you can recharge them, either through an intelligent charger, or through an integral battery management system if they have one. 

If you think you might find an alternator useful on the Tohatsu be aware that it is much cheaper to buy one that's already fitted rather than retrofit one to an existing outboard.

Peter

[maxr]

Thanks Graham and Peter. Just two more questions re the BRe, if I may:

1) I've read Topics here about difficulty in hoisting the main unless the boat is dead into the wind, and comments about the sail battens getting struck on lazyjacks. These made me wonder whether lazyjacks might be an unnecessary complication. Being a mostly open boat of similar size to my old Hawk 20, presumably BRe has a boom low enough so you can fling your arm over it as the main comes down then temporarily tame the sail with three sail ties, or bungees with bobbles, until you sort out whatever you want to do from there. What do you think? Similarly, I read comments about problems on the final 12" of the mainsail hoist, suggesting a Cunningham is the solution to getting adequate luff tension. While one of these is handy, on a Hawk you just check the main isn't caught on anything, winch it up the final few inches and set the jammer. What's the issue on the BRe - more friction / no winch?

2) Jib sheeting for single handed sailing. It looks like it might be handy to be able to rout the jib sheets through jam cleats placed pretty much where the rowlock cutouts are in the cockpit lip (or even in their own cutouts forward of that, forsooth). Then all the sheets are handy for the helm. Is that feasible, or would the jib sheet run not line up?

[Jonathan Stuart]

1) The lazyjacks on a BRe seem to have the same pros and cons as on any boat and you could potentially do without them as you suggest. Alternatively, I improved them by adding an additional lazy jack line further forward and made them adjustable so as to also act as a topping lift. The latter enables me to well lift the boom, scandalising the main such that it can be raised even more easily and also when somewhat off the wind.

The BRe doesn't have a winch for the main because it doesn't need one. Something I like about SwallowBoats's designs is they tend to be elegant and not add complication for the sake of it. The lack of a winch can make it hard to get good luff tension. The solution is a cunningham (OK, it could also be a winch but a winch seems overkill in comparison). With the cunningham released anyone can easily fully raise the main (this is made even easier with the scandalised main, as above) and you then use the cunningham to apply luff tension. Simple!

2) The sheets on the self tacking jib are as you described and are easily reached for the helm. That's the setup I have and I'm not familiar with the conventionally sheeted jibs so I don't know why they're routed differently. Personally I think the self tacking setup is perfect for single or short handed sailing and from what I've seen on the water the extra tweaking (and slightly enlarged jib) you get with the "Mk 2 conventional" jib doesn't seem to materially alter performance. The self-tacker also means you tension the jib luff with the jib boom, avoiding the need for a winch.

[Graham W]

Personally I think the self tacking setup is perfect for single or short handed sailing and from what I've seen on the water the extra tweaking (and slightly enlarged jib) you get with the "Mk 2 conventional" jib doesn't seem to materially alter performance. The self-tacker also means you tension the jib luff with the jib boom, avoiding the need for a winch.

I'd say that if you sail solo, a conventionally-sheeted jib is a hindrance.  If you have crew, it gives them something to play with and may give you a small advantage to windward but on your own, you lose time trying to untangle things, as I found out during last year's Ullswater rally.

[maxr]

I can imagine that, Graham. Certainly having a cleat or Sampson post it the middle of the foredeck leads to interesting jib sheet moments with conventional sheeting. If it's a 2:1 purchase jib sheet like on the Hawk 20 (think 4 jib sheets forward of the jib sheet track) the excitement opportunities are doubled. Self tacking would certainly appeal to Herself, who fell out with 'Knight Hawk' after coming out of a tack with one part of the working jib sheet round the wrong side of the foredeck cleat, the loaded sheet between the halyard winch and the mast rather than outside the winch, and her person firmly on top of the slack of both sheets - ensuring le tout was firmly held by both jammers and could not be let fly in the hope that it would all flog itself to leeward.

Well, thanks a lot everyone for all these useful explanations. I'll refrain from deeper flights of fancy (like how does a self tacker plus a bowsprit with a furling gennacker work) for the moment pending sailing a BRe, inserting a crowbar into the piggy bank and quietly introducing the topic during a moment of domestic felicity. The predictive text on this pad is insisting 'felicity' should be 'velocity', I do hope not...

Max

[PeterDT]

My experience:
- hoisting the main:  teflon spray helps a lot, and i use only the lazy jack on the luff side , steering 10 to 20 degrees off the wind
- self tacking jib: very usefull