Transom is as transom does

[Michael Rogers]

 Some advice please from you outboard buffs. Two related questions -

1) In giving serious consideration to an outboard for my 12ft Trouper, I've explained elsewhere that I'll need a bracket on the transom. Does it need to be as nearly central as possible? - i.e. just far enough out from amidships so that no part of the outboard actually fouls the rudder. Or is there any benefit in taking it out wider?

2) There are presumably two ways to steer under power - a) haul the rudder right up and swivel the engine to steer (as per outboard usual): b) fix the outboard, and steer as usual with the rudder/tiller. Does one way have obvious advantages, is it a matter of trial and error with the particular set up I land myself with, or doesn't it matter anyway? (If (a) is the unequivocal answer, the engine could be mounted nearer the midline because a hauled up rudder would be out of the reach of potential prop damage.)

I'm confident lots of you know the answers, so many thanks in anticipation.

Michael (R)

[Peter Cockerton]

Michael

Considerations for mounting the outboard behind the rudder.

No prop wash over rudder so effectiveness of rudder especially at slower boat speeds when trying to maneuver in a confined area more difficult.
An engine with reverse function i would think will almost certainly be required as ability to swing the engine through 180 degrees at arms length will be difficult, the separation distance between prop and rudder increase would have to be considered to prevent fouling. The additional weight of say a 4hp (normal starting point for engines with reverse) some distance from the transom may give problems on lifting the bow out of the water on your enviable light weight hull.

From what i have read on the subject of offset engines on the transom considerations are weight distribution in the boat, tendency to alter the steering trim so rudder bias required, thus resulting in boat speed and fuel efficiency reduction and boat steering when reversing. However non of these reasons would have i guess much impact on the occasional usuage of your outboard. This option would make it easier though to lift the outboard and reduce drag when sailing and give you the option to have a smaller non reverse geared outboard.

Peter Cockerton

PS Don't consider myself to an outboard buff (nothing like)

[Peter Taylor]

Michael, I think the main thing is what is comfortable to use! 

I use my Torqeedo outboard on my 15 foot Seafly sailing dinghy (for use in the river on a light boat the electric outboard is fine, I used to use a MinnKota trolling electric motor). I mount it on the transom off centre so the rudder doesn't foul it - I don't notice any problem with having it off centre.  The minn-kota was great for going up the river because it was really silent, the only reason I now use the Torqeedo (despite the whine) is the smaller, lighter battery and the fact I have it - but I digress!

With the Minn-Kota (throttle grip on steering arm) if I was going to do a lot of manoeuvring then I'll be altering the throttle so I steered with the outboard. I left the rudder down but fastened it central with a bit of shock cord.  If I'm going some way at a steady speed then I would fix the outboard and steer with the rudder simply because the tiller extension allowed me to sit in a more comfortable place in the boat.

With the Torqeedo I have a remote throttle control so I always steer with the rudder and sit comfortably! Except, as Peter C says, for very slow speed manoeuvres and  especially for going backwards, I steer with the outboard.

On Seatern I always steer with the rudder - if I steered with the outboard I wouldn't be able to see where I'm going!

As I said - I think it's whatever is comfortable to use!
Peter

[Michael Rogers]

Thanks, Peters C and T: that's very helpful. I was really checking that there weren't some critical and basic 'rules' that I wasn't aware of. I especially needed to know that an off-centre motor isn't a problem.

Y'never know what I may get up to when it comes to it, but I don't think intricate manoeuvres in confined spaces will feature much. I have to make best use of the time I can spare for sailing (I'm not complaining, I don't do too badly), and up to now a major preoccupation, especially when winds are light and/or variable, has been to get back to 'port' (which essentially is an open tidal beach with a slipway). Hitherto I have rowed if necessary (it was my sport in my youth), but I don't find it as easy or enjoyable as I used to, and I think knowing I can motor home rather than row will give me quite a bit more freedom in my planning where to go and what to do.

Your Minn Kota experience, Peter T, is relevant and helpful because - you may not be surprised to learn - I am planning to go electric, with a li-ion battery. I think that will be ideal for my light little boat. So-called trolling motors are all imported, so I am watching the falling £ with some concern. Carpe diem probably called for. I will probably go for a MotorGuide (now part of Mariner). There's an interesting new Chinese electric OB, the Haswing, but I am put off by the apparent lack of anything like a dealer network. Any two penn'orths on what to get, and where from, will be received with interested, and I'll report on progress/experience in due course.

Michael R

[Peter Taylor]

I think knowing I can motor home rather than row will give me quite a bit more freedom in my planning where to go and what to do.

My advice would be that on the sea, if you want "more freedom" get a small petrol outboard! The price  of a salt-water electric plus suitable battery is comparable or greater than petrol.

Only if you are happy to go to places where you could row back and don't want to row - only then an electric is good. Compared to petrol the electric is much lighter, much quieter, and has a reverse gear (which the small petrol models don't seem to have) - but it lacks speed/range.  On the river with the MinnKota I would normally be doing 2 kts so as to get a reasonable range and, if using the Torqeedo and planning to go further, I'd have a lead-acid battery attached to extend the range a bit.  (There's lots about attempted range extension in other threads.) Two kts is only good if you are going with the current but, since the Itchen is tidal where I am, I can use the current both ways. Used in that way the electric outboard is indeed a very pleasant experience.

The advice on electric outboards offered by Barnet Marine ( http://www.ribs.co.uk/app/download/10719372/Our+Advice+On+Electric+Outboard+Motors.pdf ) - and do watch their video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLUiUioPr1A comparing rowing, electric, and petrol  - fits reasonably with my experience except they over-rate the Torqeedo (my MinnKota/Torqeedo electric outboard comparisons were in September and October 2014 of my blog... http://www.seatern.org.uk/SeaternDiaries/diary_2014_sept.php ). They also underrate the petrol outboard since the guy is so far aft the transom is dragging hugely - using a throttle arm extension (or rudder and tiller extension) he would go faster.  Btw, I note their experience of Chinese outboards is not good!

Using a small boat inside Poole Harbour and e.g. for going up to Wareham, I agree that would prefer an electric over petrol, provided I paid attention to range which means taking (water) currents into account.  Out on the sea my experience (and that of others) is that electrics are not up to it. I would not think of using electric (Minn-Kota or Torqeedo) to motor to the Isle of Wight in my 15 foot racing dinghy, for example.

Sorry to be a bit negative but I thought I should clarify my use and experience with the MinnKota!
Peter

[Michael Rogers]

Again, that's very helpful, Peter T. I have actually done extensive homework, and have seen those youtube videos you flagged up. The BMC website (or maybe it's Google) keeps reminding me how many times I've visited!

This is carefully thought out and I'm under no illusions. I know why I sail as I do, and I will not be using my engine for anything that I would not otherwise row, except that the energy in the battery will probably last longer than that in my muscles. (You may have detected, correctly, that I feel mildly guilty and defensive about prospectively giving up on the rowing.) I am NOT expecting it to take me past the Sandbanks chain ferry against the ebb! (Or rescue me from the next tide race I visit.)

MR

[garethrow]

Michael

The Storm 17 has its outboard sightly offset and the prop towards the front of the rudder blade. The offset position is easily countered by pointing the motor slightly off centre so as not to require tiller correction. I steer with the rudder / tiller - as its longer and allows a more comfortable sitting position.

For my sort of coastal / estuarine sailing I consider a decent reliable outboard a life saver - like having a vhf is. Having rapid access to a relatively powerful form of propulsion builds ones confidence to venture further afield and utilise the tidal window nearer to its maximum - i.e. more time on the water!

Good luck with you choice.

Regards

Gareth
Gwennol Teifi S17

[Michael Rogers]

Hi, Gareth.

Thanks for your transom advice. And I take your other points. For your coastline and tide situation, your logic is spot on, and I know how experienced you are. However yours is a much more 'demanding' sailing area than mine, and i'm fortunate that I can launch and sail at pretty well all states of the tide. I have a clear idea of what my choice (I haven't got it yet!) of motor will, and will not, enable me to do, and how it fits in with my style of sailing.

I get the distinct feeling that some folk think I'm making a mistake. We'll see. I promise to report back.