Q: How to rig Asymmetric Spinnaker on a BRe?

[johnguy]

Does anyone know if there is a top down furling kit tailor made for a BRe MK2 with bowsprit? Sounds like a good idea to invest kids' inheritance in.

[Sea Simon]

Does anyone know if there is a top down furling kit tailor made for a BRe MK2 with bowsprit? Sounds like a good idea to invest kids' inheritance in.

Answer. No. Not known of.

However I'm similarly interested, but it will perhaps involve a "reinvestment opportunity" for some of my sipp lump sum, and some fairly routine "Man Maths"!
 

[johnguy]

I'll bug swallow about it.

[Sea Simon]

I'll bug swallow about it.

Please let us know how you get on.
Some sort of "group buy" or bulk purchase of several at once should bring significant discounts, especially if order could be fulfilled during the winter off-season?

[johnguy]

So far it seems the standard asymmetric sail has solid corners that don't work with a TDF  as they foul jib when rolling, see previous threads. Swallow offering me a spinnaker bag, not yet sure how it works. Anyone with specific experience of such a bag on a BRe MK2 please?

[Peter T]

John

Nick Peter's 2015 post on page 2 of the forum thread called "Code Zero...development or what"  is very helpful in terms of describing the versatility of the current asymmetric spinnaker and it also describes the bag that he designed.  I would guess that this is the one that Swallow are currently selling.  It also features in the "Swallow Yachts BayRaider Expedition under Asymmetric Spinnaker" U tube video.

At the moment I am perfectly happy launching and recovering through the main hatch of the cabin but if I decide to try a bag, it will probably be this Swallow one as I think it would suit my technique.  I have set my boat up so that the spinnaker gybes round the front of the luff (rather than in between the luff and forestay or jib) which seems to work well and it also means that you can recover the sail more easily, even when it is set on the opposite side.  You do however have to make small some changes to the boat and set up for this to work reliably in different wind strengths and to avoid loosing the lazy sheet under the boat

[johnguy]

Thanks Peter, interesting. I don't have any problems setting and retrieving the asymmetric when I have time, space and a good crew, but in busy round the cans racing doing it in and out of the hatch doesn't work. I need to be able to set and dowse it on either gybe quickly. That is carefully not shown on the video... I'm going to have a chat to Nick/Matt at the boat show and will then either carry on as I am or get some sort of a top down furler, I think.

[Sea Simon]

Spinni bag.

I ordered one of these turtle/spinni launch bags from Hyde. Have used similar on several other boats.
http://www.hydesails.co.uk/sail-bags/hyde-spinnaker-launch-bag-XS
Quite reasonable at £55?

However, it took over 3 weeks to arrive, and when it did  they had sent a size small, not the extra small ordered.
Way too big for the companionway, as i wanted to clip it up inside, at top hatch level. The sail was looking a bit lost in it too!
I had measured up, and reckon an X small might have been ok?

Anyway. Decided to do this regatta using the garden trug/big bucket thing that we had practiced with at least for now, and see how we get on?

Hyde refunded on the bag, no problems.

Still really fancy a TDF...that way spinni should also be manageable with wife as crew, and  also with boat in the river or on short course racing?
Anyone fancy trying for a group buy discount,  for the BRe, come winter?

Update. Sept 18. Regatta was long-course racing, with no legs really less than 20-30 mins.
Did a weeks regatta, with experienced crew, and no problems using the assi in, out of the companionway, from the trug. Trug was tied up tight to the top to the opening with bungy. Allowed lower washboard in place.
 Cheap and effective.
I won't be ordering another Hyde bag, counting that as £55 saved towrads my TDF??? More on that later....

I did need to put some protection over the lock hasp, proved to be necessary to save both my sail, and the crews forehead!

Main problem was found to be trying to race a "conventional " spinni fleet,  with the very reachy cut of my spinni. More on that in another thread maybe? Trying to stay with rigging here.

[Sea Simon]

Expensive option I know but have you considered the top down furling kit

I'm not sure how relevant this is to the BRe but this year on my BC20 I'm using a top-down furling asymmetric. In previous years I've used an asymmetric lots of times by launching it "from a bucket" but, sailing single handed, once I had used it I hardly ever had time to sort it out in order to reset it, for example on a different tack. I sail in the Solent and there are usually too many other boats around to spend time repacking a spinnaker.

Having read the efforts to use furling spinnakers on other threads on the forum (e.g. http://www.swallowyachtsassociation.org/smf/index.php/topic,1078 ) I decided to treat myself to a complete "turnkey" spinnaker and furling system from Hyde Sails ordered through Swallow Yachts. The latter proved a benefit since the SY rigger, Peter, had to sort out problems with the system before it was ready for me to collect. The new spinnaker is a different luff length and has different corner reinforcement compared to my previous one.

Having now used it a few times I'm very happy with it. The system works well enough that tacking downwind by furling and unfurling the asymmetric during each gybe is an easy option (famous last words!). In effect I can use the asymmetric several times during a trip, unfurling it on either tack, without having to go forward.

The only big downside is the cost - at around £1.5K for the sail+furler system (furling drum, torsion cable, continuous furling line, double lead and cam-cleat)+turtle it's a very expensive option. However putting ones own system together is not cheap and carries more risk of failure.

Peter

Peter,  i would be very grateful if you could let me know the make, and ideally model of your furling hardware. I see the Hyde sail.

[johnguy]

I'm going to have a wee chat with Matt/Nick Peters at the Soton Boat show re a proper TDF solution for the BRes. See if they are interested in speccing a system they could sell to others on future boats. Then if it is not too outrageous I would be up to buy one, sell existing sail to another BRe owner help defray a little bit of cost. I just think with a good system I will use the assy so much more. Currently it is a liability in short leg racing even with a crew who has some practice. And I don't think a bag is the answer, there needs to be some sort of recovery line for a bag to work well. A TDF would be much tidier.

[Sea Simon]

I'm going to have a wee chat with Matt/Nick Peters at the Soton Boat show re a proper TDF solution for the BRes. See if they are interested in speccing a system they could sell to others on future boats. Then if it is not too outrageous I would be up to buy one, sell existing sail to another BRe owner help defray a little bit of cost. I just think with a good system I will use the assy so much more. Currently it is a liability in short leg racing even with a crew who has some practice. And I don't think a bag is the answer, there needs to be some sort of recovery line for a bag to work well. A TDF would be much tidier.

Ideal. Please keep me informed, and add me as very interested.
Thanks.

[Peter Taylor]

Peter,  i would be very grateful if you could let me know the make, and ideally model of your furling hardware. I see the Hyde sail.

I'm using the Selden GX furler chosen simply because it is the least expensive.I'm also using the Selden double cam blocks at the cockpit end of the control line. So far it works very reliably except the once when it was my mistake (I'd tried freeing the halyard to alter the luff and forgot to tighten it before furling).

Last year at the boat show Wooderz (who some of you might have met at Swallow raids) was manning the Hyde Sails stand and they had a small demonstration furling system set up - might be worth looking on their stand again this year if you are going to the show.
Peter

[Sea Simon]

Thanks Peter T.

Unfortunately work precludes both my sailing, and the boat show the the moment.
Look forward to updates later.

[johnguy]

Just back from boat show and TDF investigations. First, it is quite feasible to have a nice TDF for an assymetric on the BRe and the Selden smallest model looks and feels really classy. A new sail is needed for the right luff length and corner rollability. So it is an investment of around £1500, as Peter T said. I spoke to Matt about it and he sees that a few people might well want such a thing and why, and he is willing to spec one and get Hyde to supply a made to measure sail and system for those who want it. He will then make it an option for future boats. However...I had a good chat with Nick Peters about it and he was quite sniffy. He pointed out that upwind the TDF flobbing around in front of the jib would hurt upwind performance quite a bit. His opinion is that I should man up and learn to use the assy as it is, it is small enough not to need such aids as a TDF. My issue is I race the boat round the cans and need the upwind performance, so despite really wanting a TDF to make handling the assy easier, I've decided not to go that route. Instead I'll drill the crew until we can handle the assy as it is better in and out of the house, as we do now but with fewer snags... So Simon if you want one, talk to Matt after the boat show, he says it will be better down through Swallow. And as my wife said, we now have £1500 to spend on other toys...

[Peter Taylor]

Mmm... I suspect Nick Peters normally sails with a crew!

However... I must admit that so far I've found that the TDF does not furl the asymmetric tight enough along the entire luff that I'd want to keep it rigged for an upwind leg of any length unless the wind was very light. Once furled I find I can lower the asymmetric onto the side deck using the sheets to guide it down and then secure the head using the halyard so it doesn't all blow over-board. I can do all that from the cockpit. It does help that the BC20 has raised gunwales, especially high at the bow, so there is a semi-enclosed space into which to lower the sail. The BRE does not have that advantage.

Leaving the sail lowered in that way would not be acceptable if I were pitching into a sea, I'd have to go forward and secure the sail better, probably also retracting the bowsprit. However if it were that rough I doubt that I would be considering using the asymmetric anyway!

So for racing with a crew, Nick is probably right. For cruising single handed give me a TDF any day!

Peter