The Epropulsion Spirit XS - A Horse for our Course?

Started by Ray S, 16 Oct 2019, 10:21

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

|

Llafurio

The EPropulsion propeller is plastic, large, two-blade, and brittle. Mine got frayed and damaged just from being brought up and down through the well-calming lamellae a few times.
I asked the distributor for a smaller three-blade prop, or a metal one, not available.
C.
Ex various Drascombes, ex SeaRaider (WE) #1 "Craic", ex BR20 (GRE) "Llafurio", ex BR20 (GRP) "Tipsy", currently BRE (modified for open sea passages) "Homer", Drascombe Drifter "27". Homeport: Rossdohan

Llafurio

... and to add some negatives, big ones:

1. The two-blade propeller is 40mm too long / wide for the width of  the well bottom cutout. It regularly jams being pulled back up through the lamellae. Only solution is to cut 20 mm off both propeller tips, or to make fit the three-blade propeller of the Tohatsu 3.5.

2. When using the "Short" EPropulsion on my tender, I regularly collect weeds in the propeller. However, I cannot get at the propeller because it is just too far out from the stern of the dinghy. To de-weed I have to take the engine completely off the transom, de-weed it inside the boat, and then hang it back out.

and 3., the worst: All petrol outboards I ever had, from cheapest to most expensive, had an AUTOMATIC mechanism to allow the engine leg to kick up when hitting an underwater object while going forward. To protect the engine, and boat.

The EPropulsion -at double the price of most peer size petrol engine- hasn't one. The engine leg locks automatically into "Down" when lowered. You can MANUALLY release it, if you don't forget, but if you have released it, and forget to re-lock before going into reverse, the prop kicks up in reverse and hits the lamellae and well bottom cut-out. -- Damage.  :-[


-I really love battery-electric, on two- and four wheels, hand- and garden tools, all super. And I also have two EPropulsions (one S and one XS) because I wanted the noiselessness. The range is fine for me, but frankly I think these engines are not yet properly engineered enough to be wholeheartedly recommended to a friend. Better wait with your purchase, IMO they are bound to come up with better practical solutions soon, especially re an automatic leg kick-up mechanism. C.

P.S.
... and one necessary correction: It has been said above in this thread that the propeller is "free to spin" resp. "freewheeling" when left down during sailing.
Well, it may be wheeling or spinning, but certainly is not free in this. There is considerable resistance to spinning freely.
Ex various Drascombes, ex SeaRaider (WE) #1 "Craic", ex BR20 (GRE) "Llafurio", ex BR20 (GRP) "Tipsy", currently BRE (modified for open sea passages) "Homer", Drascombe Drifter "27". Homeport: Rossdohan

Sea Simon

Some excellent points there. Have you advised eprop manufacturers?

"1. The two-blade propeller is 40mm too long / wide for the width of  the well bottom cutout. It regularly jams being pulled back up through the lamellae. Only solution is to cut 20 mm off both propeller tips, or to make fit the three-blade propeller of the Tohatsu 3.5."!

It might seem a daft idea, but I've seen similar remedies to damaged tips on quite large commercial propellers used by professional prop repair specialists. Albeit on 3 & 4 blade props. Balancing issues probably less pronounced? Mods done in situ no post-repair rebalancing.
If yours is already damaged, what have you to loose?
I'd make up some sort of template/jig so as to try to ensure cropping is as equal as  possible on both blades.
Is the prop material some sort of nylon/glass loaded plastic? Cut cold.

What are the shaft speeds of the eprop and the tohatsu?

BRe # 52 - "Two Sisters"  2016. Plank sprit, conventional jib. Asym spinn. Coppercoat. Honda 5. SOLD Nov 2022....
...From Oct 22.
BC 26 #1001. "Two Sisters 2", 2013. Alloy spars, Bermudan Sloop; fixed twin spade rudders, Beta diesel saildrive. Lift keel with lead bulb. Coppercoat. Cornwall UK.

Graham W

Alternatively, a hinged transom height extender might solve several problems.  See Addendum 1 to this library article for a description https://www.swallowyachtsassociation.org/?p=820.  It was written about the Torqeedo but that motor's issues are the same or worse than the ePropulsion Spirit's.  Instead of an eccentric latch holding the transom extender in place at the back, how about one of these and some string? https://www.clamcleat.com/auto-release-racing-mini.html  It would hold the transom extender in place when going in reverse but would also release and allow the motor to kick up when the skeg hits something. 

The Torqeedo prop is also far too fragile and I regularly lose chips out of the end of my blades, which must surely impact the motor's efficiency.
Gunter-rigged GRP BR20 No.59 'Turaco III'

Llafurio

I adapted the SOLAS 2.5 - 3.5 shearpin propeller for the EPropulsion. Costs about 25 quid. Works fine. Goes through the lamellae without hindrance each time. C.
Ex various Drascombes, ex SeaRaider (WE) #1 "Craic", ex BR20 (GRE) "Llafurio", ex BR20 (GRP) "Tipsy", currently BRE (modified for open sea passages) "Homer", Drascombe Drifter "27". Homeport: Rossdohan

Peter Cockerton

Could you give us an update on this modification when you have had time to try it open water please, i.e. does it still provide the same thrust, does it rev differently, and does it look like it will have the same distance capability. I'm very tempted to part with my Mariner 4hp and MinnKota but the issue with the outboard flaps and propeller damage put me off as I don't want to mess about with mods in that area.

Thanks

Peter C
Bayraider 20 mk2
Larger jib set on bowsprit with AeroLuff spar
USA rig
Carbon Fibre main boom with sail stack pack
Epropulsion Spirit Plus Outboard

Peter Taylor

As much as I'd like to "go electric" (and having tried so hard with the Torqeedo and failed!), I have to say that I'm still not convinced by the speed/range figures given in this thread that it would work for me (or others) in tidal waters like the Solent.

Often the reason to start the motor is that the tide is against you and the wind is either on the nose or too light to fight against the current, which is often running at 2 knots or more. With an electric outboard that can push the boat at 4 kts you are now down to 2 kts or less. So you need twice the endurance or more. You can't increase the power because that runs the battery down even faster. So, sadly, for use in tidal waters I'll stick with my noisy 6hp Tohatsu with its large external fuel tank rather than go back to using a quiet electric outboard!

Peter Taylor
BayCruiser 20 "Seatern" (009)
http://www.seatern.uk

Llafurio

I clocked practically the same values with the adapted 3-blade propeller as with the original 2-blade. 2.9 kn @ 460 W, and 4.1 kn @ 1,000 Watt. Zero noise, no cavitation, and no weeds. Very happy with the result.

However, it should be noted that the Suzuki 2.5 pushes the boat near 5 kn at full throttle. But with awful noise.
C.
Ex various Drascombes, ex SeaRaider (WE) #1 "Craic", ex BR20 (GRE) "Llafurio", ex BR20 (GRP) "Tipsy", currently BRE (modified for open sea passages) "Homer", Drascombe Drifter "27". Homeport: Rossdohan

Llafurio

To close,

there are also some minor design differences between the Spirit 1 and the 1 Plus.

For instance, the "Plus" has an additional anode held by a central M5 bolt in the end of the driveshaft.

As I am using this M5 bolt to counter the main M10 nut which mainly holds the new propeller on the shaft, I think my propeller mod would NOT work so easily on a -boltless- older "Spirit 1.0".

BTW the 3-blade propeller I am using costs only GBP 10.50, incl. postage. Cheap enough to play around with. There are no permanent modifications required on the engine or on the boat itself. In particular, the outboarder well flaps need NOT be modified. The original propeller can be put back on anytime.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Unbekannt-Propeller-Tohatsu-2-5-3-5HP-309-64107-0/dp/B07NWSCW6T/ref=sr_1_32?crid=3P6RJH7YZMFMI&dchild=1&keywords=outboard+propeller&qid=1591719862&sprefix=outboard+propeller%2Caps%2C183&sr=8-32
C.


Ex various Drascombes, ex SeaRaider (WE) #1 "Craic", ex BR20 (GRE) "Llafurio", ex BR20 (GRP) "Tipsy", currently BRE (modified for open sea passages) "Homer", Drascombe Drifter "27". Homeport: Rossdohan

Ray S

Good to know there is the 3 blade solution out there..... I could have saved cutting out the lamelli; although still pleased with the results of that. Hey, what it is to be a pioneer. So now we have a choice of solutions which is a great result.

Llafurio, when you say you use the 5mm bolt to counter the 10mm nut, I suppose you mean that the 5mm acts as a locking bolt? 

Yesterday because of no wind in the morning went out some 3nm with slight head current on 25% power, more or less same speed as other yachts coming out;  On return we had 2nm on 40% power with stronger head current and head wind breeze and still had 60% battery power at the end.  So very pleased with the results I'm getting. No looking back to lawn-mower engine in the cockpit!











Llafurio

Quote from: Ray S on 10 Jun 2020, 10:19
...
Llafurio, when you say you use the 5mm bolt to counter the 10mm nut, I suppose you mean that the 5mm acts as a locking bolt?  ...

No, originally the M5 bolt is only there to hold the newly arrived zinc anode The original blue propeller is held by the M10 self-locking nut.

I first used the M5 bolt to counter (lock) the M10. But now I use a drop of thread locker for the M10, and again use the M5 only to hold the anode. See photo.

I too will not go back to the petrol engines.
C.
Ex various Drascombes, ex SeaRaider (WE) #1 "Craic", ex BR20 (GRE) "Llafurio", ex BR20 (GRP) "Tipsy", currently BRE (modified for open sea passages) "Homer", Drascombe Drifter "27". Homeport: Rossdohan

Llafurio

The Epropulsion Spirit 1 Plus XS brings enjoyment to motoring the BR. It's a bit like sailing itself. Noiseless, no vibrations, no smell. You can have a conversation while you go, and you can hear seabirds and seals around you. Also, our dog loves it.
And notable is the trolling capability the engine brings for fishing, which you cannot have from any petrol engine. Ghosting the boat soundlessly along at minimal speeds at 20, 30 or 40 W. Magic.

But it must also be noted: Only when the battery is "full" you get the full power to the propeller, 1,000 W .
From a remaining charge of around 25% the current goes noticeably down, to 850 W and further below. So, towards the end of the cruise you cannot expect the engine to deliver "full throttle" power, it's less. C.
Ex various Drascombes, ex SeaRaider (WE) #1 "Craic", ex BR20 (GRE) "Llafurio", ex BR20 (GRP) "Tipsy", currently BRE (modified for open sea passages) "Homer", Drascombe Drifter "27". Homeport: Rossdohan

Peter Cockerton

Quote from: Llafurio on 09 Jun 2020, 17:28
To close,

there are also some minor design differences between the Spirit 1 and the 1 Plus.

For instance, the "Plus" has an additional anode held by a central M5 bolt in the end of the driveshaft.

As I am using this M5 bolt to counter the main M10 nut which mainly holds the new propeller on the shaft, I think my propeller mod would NOT work so easily on a -boltless- older "Spirit 1.0".

BTW the 3-blade propeller I am using costs only GBP 10.50, incl. postage. Cheap enough to play around with. There are no permanent modifications required on the engine or on the boat itself. In particular, the outboarder well flaps need NOT be modified. The original propeller can be put back on anytime.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Unbekannt-Propeller-Tohatsu-2-5-3-5HP-309-64107-0/dp/B07NWSCW6T/ref=sr_1_32?crid=3P6RJH7YZMFMI&dchild=1&keywords=outboard+propeller&qid=1591719862&sprefix=outboard+propeller%2Caps%2C183&sr=8-32
C.

Epropulsion Spirit xs Plus 1276w purchased now we have a 3 blade solution, you must have started a run on the Unbekannt 7.4 x 5.7 Boat Propeller as Amazon have none now until early August and i can't find anyone else who stock it, any ideas on a supplier as i would like it for early July

Peter C
Bayraider 20 mk2
Larger jib set on bowsprit with AeroLuff spar
USA rig
Carbon Fibre main boom with sail stack pack
Epropulsion Spirit Plus Outboard

Llafurio

Quote from: Peter Cockerton on 15 Jun 2020, 17:25

Epropulsion Spirit xs Plus 1276w purchased now we have a 3 blade solution, you must have started a run on the Unbekannt 7.4 x 5.7 Boat Propeller as Amazon have none now until early August and i can't find anyone else who stock it, any ideas on a supplier as i would like it for early July

Peter C

You just keep on looking. What about this offer?: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mercury-Mariner-Tohatsu-Propeller-2-2-2-5-3-3-3-5-hp-2-4-stroke-7-4-x-5-7/323742957179?hash=item4b60957e7b:g:~AcAAOSw6IlckCg0
Ex various Drascombes, ex SeaRaider (WE) #1 "Craic", ex BR20 (GRE) "Llafurio", ex BR20 (GRP) "Tipsy", currently BRE (modified for open sea passages) "Homer", Drascombe Drifter "27". Homeport: Rossdohan

Graham W

It looks like ePropulsion and Torqeedo have another potentially viable competitor in the 3HP segment, Haswing https://haswingmotors.co.uk/home/ultima-3/.  Like ePropulsion, they're Chinese (part of Ya Tai Electric Appliance Co. in Guangdong) but their origins are in smaller electric trolling motors for anglers.  Only available in long shaft at the moment and with a smaller battery capacity than ePropulsion's largest version.  Note the three-bladed propeller!
Gunter-rigged GRP BR20 No.59 'Turaco III'

|