Problems to look for when surveying west epoxy Swallow boats

[graham2burton65@gmail.com]

Hi folks,
You may have gathered I am keen to buy a BC 20.
1 Please could we have a list of points to look for when surveying one.

2. I am thoughtful about what happens to a water ballast tank when left afloat all summer.  does it fill with marine growth? a fair few Swallow Boats seem to left afloat longer term.

Problems I have gleaned so far.  Other than a careful check for wear and tear and/or damage..and that everything works
The wooden mast base plug can swell and split the carbon mast.
Centre board up and down haul ropes are impossible to check. rope to board joint. anyone had one fail?
Early cockpit seat tops used to split
check for damage around outboard motor well opening
outboard attachment mini bulkhead can twist if run aground with engine locked down.
a broker reported to me he had seen a boat with cracks due to being squeezed, presumably between two large yachts
self bailers corrosion and leaking

A bit of forward planning before I go of on my search for a good one....once we come out of lockdown.
thanks
Graham B

[Graham W]

Graham,

I can only answer a couple of your points.

The one concerning the ballast tank - from what I remember when I kept my boat in a marina or on a mooring, I always left it with the ballast tank empty, which meant that stuff didn’t accumulate inside.  One reason for doing this was to raise the waterline so that any rain falling into the cockpit drained away quickly through the sump (a self drainer there was left open to allow this to happen).

As for leaky self drainers, I wouldn’t worry too much about this - the seals are not that expensive and are not too difficult to replace.

Good luck!

[Matthew P]

My biggest concern would be structural damage to the hull caused by badly placed and over-tightened trailer straps and lack of hull support. 

Look for permanent distortion or cracks where bottom of the boat rests on the rollers.  Sometimes owners strap DOWN the bow which means the hull is stiffening the trailer as it flexes.  I place my GRP BR20's straps across the deck just behind the mast foot which is above the strong internal arch and the second strap over the cockpit at the rear of the trailer.  The rear strap is firm but not tight and has a twist in the middle to stop it humming in the wind.  The winch is left attached so that the winch strap is horizontal and belt-and-braces stops the boat rolling off backwards but allows the trailer to flex under the boat.  I also fit a long sailboard tie-down around the hull only and under the centre board to support it and so the weight of the raised centre board on the trailer does not strain the up-haul.

Matthew
BR20 Gladys

[Peter Cockerton]

Graham

With the standard winch straps that hook onto the sides of the trailer and then to the ratchet assembly i believe owners over tighten these straps to overcome the hooks becoming dislodged from the trailer eyes when the boat flexes as it is being towed. Then  having stopped some distance along the journey find the straps floating and this time tension a little harder, this is my experience anyway. I have just purchased two new straps straps that go under the hull, then over the hull and back to the ratchet assembly (endless design) these will work fine i think and be kinder to the hull.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ratchet-Straps-Tie-Down-5-5-Metre-x-50mm-ENDLESS-5-tons-Lashing-Handy-Straps/362763270947?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


Peter C

[Graham W]

Peter,

An ingenious solution to the problem of over-tightening.

So there are no hooks and the loop holds the boat in place by passing under the trailer frame and back over the boat?  And you have to thread the far end of the strap into the ratchet at the other end to form the loop?  How much spare strap do you have with your 5.5m loop once secured through the ratchet?

I’m thinking that you will probably need pads (eg bits of old carpet) in various places to prevent the strap from chafing when in transit. And as the strap stretches and flexes, the pads will need to be secured in place on the strap, otherwise they will get shaken off.

[Peter Cockerton]

Graham

Good Morning, the strap material is very soft and 50mm wide so the pressure points are spread nicely, however i have cut pieces of the rubber backed floor mats (4 on each strap) on the straps (cut slits and fed the strap through) so they stay in place when the strap is removed. This protects the gunnels and the hull where the straps touch when tightened.

I use one strap over the stern around the same area as the standard trailer welded loops, i do not thread the straps through the loops as on my trailer the 50mm strap is wider that the welded loop so i place the strap in front of the loop.

The second strap i route so that it passes and lays against the tabernacle and then runs back to the trailer frame to restrain the boat from any forward movement (Matt has always said that the most likely movement for a boat on a trailer is moving forward under heavy breaking). This time i do use the trailer mounted loops as they are an addition to the standard trailer and wider so the strap doesn't bind on the sides.

The straps are described as being 5.5 mtrs long, they are in fact 6 mtrs long and are long enough. If you measure your requirements before ordering they sell the same strap in a longer version should it be required.

On a another note, some years ago you posted an article on a KJH handle, a device for aiding the purchase on lanyards and sheets, i am now looking for such a device to take the place of the rolling hitch i use to tension my jib halyard with the aid of a 3:1 handy billy, i'm also thinking it could be used by my other half to help sheeting in my larger jib on my new boat.
How have you found it over the years of use assuming it has not been lost or broken

This other bit of kit would do nicely for the jib halyard tension and some other uses i think,

https://www.forestandarb.com/Climbing-Technology-RollnLock.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMInciPiMr76AIVDevtCh1EqA2hEAQYASABEgKQGfD_BwE

Peter C

[Sea Simon]

The topic of ratchet straps, and associated damage was discussed on here, at
"ratchet strap protectors". It's important, imho.
https://www.swallowyachtsassociation.org/smf index.php/topic,1905.msg12569.html#msg12569

We are dealing with a flexible trailer, flexible boat, and stretchy (to some degree) straps. I wouldn't like to say which is "stiffest"?
Unlike my racing dinghy, my BRe and its trailer don't seem to bounce along the road, guess that's due to the all up weight? So, I figure that the straps are locating the load on the trailer, as opposed to attempting to create a "solid" load unit? My philosophy is therefore to try to ensure that the load can't shift significantly on the trailer, fore, aft, or sideways.
On my trailer, the keel rollers seem to take most of the boat weight, once loaded, with the swing beam and side rollers predominantly giving location? Is this right?

However, on my light (hull is less than 80kg) racing dinghy, i feel the need to be much more careful with securing the hull.
 Being so light and insignificant a load, the temptation to speed is always greater. I have a serious sense of self preservation when towing the BRe!

I have made up a "spreader beam" from wood, this sits across the cockpit at the end of the dagger board case, right where the main sheet attachment turret is, a hard point. This coincdes with the wide bunk of the launch trolley. The wide securing strap goes cross the top of this.
These "hard points" in the assembly matter, imho. Don't strap tightly across wide, flat, unsupported panels.

.... I never  did buy any of those fancy bungy-based straps, in other post, but then I've not towed my BRe significantly over the past couple of years.

[Graham W]

Peter,

Thanks for the additional information.  I've survived for nearly 10 years and over many thousands of miles with the hooked ratchet straps, seemingly without damage, but will now move over to your system as it makes intuitive sense and my old straps are fraying and need replacing anyway.

On a another note, some years ago you posted an article on a KJH handle, a device for aiding the purchase on lanyards and sheets, i am now looking for such a device to take the place of the rolling hitch i use to tension my jib halyard with the aid of a 3:1 handy billy, i'm also thinking it could be used by my other half to help sheeting in my larger jib on my new boat.
How have you found it over the years of use assuming it has not been lost or broken

I'm afraid that the Karver KJH handle thoroughly disgraced itself in 2015 by snapping in two when used as part of my handy billy at Rutland Water, so I sent it back for a refund.  See https://www.swallowyachtsassociation.org/smf/index.php/topic,927.msg5998.html#msg5998.  Like you, I still use the handy billy for tasks such as tightening halyards but I now tie an icicle hitch to lock on to the halyard - works a treat https://www.animatedknots.com/icicle-hitch-knot-end-method

Clamcleat make something a bit similar to the KJH handle but with metal instead of plastic https://www.sailboats.co.uk/clamcleat-cl261-single-handed-power-grip-cleat.  I don't know whether it would be up to the job.

We've now slalomed massively off topic but I don't think anyone's looking!

[Graham W]

Simon,

Continuing off piste and into the deep powder, do you have a picture of your spreader beam?  I can't work out what it looks like.  Your reference to a previous message went a bit wrong and should be somewhere in here https://www.swallowyachtsassociation.org/smf/index.php/topic,1905.0.html

On my trailer, the keel rollers seem to take most of the boat weight, once loaded, with the swing beam and side rollers predominantly giving location? Is this right?

That’s certainly the case on my CLH trailer.

[Peter Taylor]

Hi Graham B., going back to some of your questions. Seatern has been siting at my jetty for more or less 6 years now with the ballast tanks full of seawater. You don't get growth because it's dark in there - very little light gets in via the translucent hatch covers (especially the one with my fridge on top of it!). You don't get growth on the rock in underground caves for the same reason.

I keep the tanks full to maximise stability in gales given that she is against a jetty. The cockpit floor in a BC20 is plenty high enough to allow rainwater drainage into the sumps either side of the outboard well despite the ballast tanks being full. If left on a mooring for extended periods you could leave the bailers in the sumps open to ensure rainwater would not collect.

The bailer in the aft ballast tank does look rusty; since I never use it (relying on the electric pump) I don't even know if it would still open. It doesn't leak noticeably  when I'm sailing with the tanks empty! The bailer in the port sump leaks, probably because it tends to be close to the mud when the tide is out and I've got grit in it. The starboard one doesn't. In my experience bailers on any boat I've had do leak if they can get mud or sand in them. However on the BC20 it doesn't really matter if they do leak; see second paragraph.

The mount for the outboard is substantial and forms the aft end of the aft ballast tank. It is also strengthened by the sides of the sumps to either side of the outboard well.  If you ran the outboard aground hard enough to do damage there it would be very serious damage - but it would have to be a very hefty collision. Normally the centreboard would hit first since the BC20 needs a bit of centreboard in order to steer even under motor (otherwise it's like a shopping trolley)!

I haven't had a centreboard rope fail yet - touch wood, pray, offer sacrifices to the river gods, etc. Nor have I had trouble with the cockpit seat tops. However I do have teak "decking" panels on the side seats on Seatern because they are less slippery when it's icy than the original seat finish. That means the side seats are reinforced.

There is a little drainage hole above the wooden plug in the bast base and I periodically check that it is not blocked. I haven't had a problem there yet (again touch wood, etc. etc. as above).

Peter

[Sea Simon]

Graham,
I'm no skier, no sailor either atm, so what the heck!

Spreader beam. Sorry if I've muddied any waters? It's for the dinghy, not the BRe.
It sits transversely, across the boat. Longitudinally, in way of main sheet turret.
The overall effect is to sandwich the hull between the beam and the launch trolley bunk, both appx 6" wide, so spreading the load, and eliminating any  hull  movements or bounce with minimal pressure.

Hopefully someone besides us two will find this post of some use? At least we all have time to fill.....

[Sea Simon]

Swerving ever further off piste?

POWER GRIP CLEATS

Excellent bit of kit, have several of them. Very durable too, one piece of cast aluminium, much like many clam cleats.
I keep one on my board uphaul line all of the time, allows an "emergency"single  handed raise when dodging in the shallows.
Another lives at the main halyard, ideal for snugging up.
Good price for what it is.
UK made too, I think?

They also do a larger two handed version, which I've not yet tried.
CL 262
https://www.sailboats.co.uk/clamcleat-cl262-double-handed-power-grip-cleat
£14.

[Sea Simon]

Almost back on topic, Graham B!

Ballast tanks.

Perhaps contrary to popular perception, fouling WILL grow in dark tanks/pipes.
At work (offshore) we spend  thousands attempting to prevent attachment (using various toxins and electrical deterents too!), and tens of thousands clearing away the growth that we have failed to prevent!

However, all is not lost. Fouling growth, generally, needs some light...but more importantly it needs moving water as a a source of both oxygen and nutrients.
For example, barnacles will grow to 20-30 mm length in a dark pipe/tank.....provided the water is moving. So, We try to stop water flow, and simultaneously inject toxic chemicals.

Luckily for us our Swallow ballast tanks are generally "stagnant". Low oxygen, low nutrients. No flow.
To be sure, i add "bog blue" additive to my ballast tank, which is filled with fresh water whenever I am able to steal it off the harbour master!
No growth issues so far, despite being always full when unattended on mooring.

Did get a big gulp of sand in once last year, when i i forgot to put the bung back in after beaching during the summer. Easily washed out when the boat was retrieved to trailer at season end.

[graham2burton65@gmail.com]

Hi Sea Simon,

so following that logic, if a boat was left in the sea all season, with no preventative measures, some significant growth could occur.  the thought of those little barnacles etc all around out of site will add some weight. I guess if they are not blocking the transfer pipes, which can be serviced......and you sail with water in, it does not matter?

some smell when they rot in dry storage!
However, little I can do if buying second hand so probably not to worry about this one too much.
it would be interesting to blast a jet wash nozzle in....... behave Graham.

thanks

[Sea Simon]

Fouling.
Perhaps we need to differentiate between animal and plant? Animals will grow in the dark, but they need oxygen, and food.
Based on my professional experience,  have adopted (when possible): fill with fresh water, then add a chemical dose. Thought about bleach, but had some loo-bloo and thought that might be less aggressive?
Perhaps this dosing could be more critical if the ballast water was changed very regularly ( plenty of food and O2)? Mine only gets changed when racing, which is not very often at all in this boat.
Do others have any experience?

I'm reasonably confident that this regime has worked so far, although boat is only 4 years old.....
When i discovered the sand in my tank, (due i believe to me forgetting to close the fill plug over 2-4 days, and the boat lying on a tidal mooring - very surprised at how much sand came in through such a small hole!) i put a mirror on a stick inside the tank. No fouling seen.
To get the sand out, i relaunched the aft end of the boat, off the trailer, and flushed the tank with a very powerful hose. No foulants (plant or animal) appeared from the drains, in the aft sump....just a LOT of sand!