Swallow Yachts Association on Facebook

[Julian Merson]

Long time lurker, and soon to be new BR20 owner, with the deposit already made.  As for Facebook, sorry gents but in my opinion it is a cesspool and time waster.  Not to mention YOU are the product.   I just wonder why this forum is not enough of a medium to share info, photos and general knowledge? 

Fantastic news about another new owner.
There's lots of good stuff on FB alongside the inevitable rubbish.  One learns to pick and choose - and of course privacy settings are quite good at ensuring the interesting things bubble up to the surface.  It isn't for everyone and every type of post.  There's nothing to stop both ladies and gents sharing on either platform, alongside many others such as YouTube. 
The point in having a presence on FB as an Association, however, is that virtually every other type of boat is well represented by its own 'group' so it makes sense for our boats to be on there too. 243 Swallow Yachts Association members on FB and growing, since its inception in the summer.  They can't all be misguided!

[Graham W]

As expected and despite assurances to the contrary, the number of Facebook posts touching on technical matters is steadily increasing, contrary to the rules of the Facebook group and to the detriment of this forum.  There appears to be little or no moderation there.  This should be reminding people that answers to most technical questions have already been posted on the forum or in the library, where they can easily be searched for.  Or if they haven’t been posted, just ask here and they will soon be answered.

[Julian Merson]

On the contrary, Graham, there's plenty of moderation over there, which is why participants rarely, if ever, will see spam posts - but don't let that lead anyone to think such attempted posts don’t happen.

The key thing is that posts are relevant to Swallow Yachts.  And, let's be clear, the FB rules do not prevent participants from raising or responding to technical questions.  In this respect, a light touch works best and it has certainly helped to grow the page.  Almost 1000 members on the FB group has to be good news for interest in our boats and I'd like to think plenty have been enticed to sample the forum at the same time and some to sample Swallow yachts and boats!  Also, dare I say it, unlike plenty of other FB groups, there has been little if any discord.

Just as it is the choice of some not to participate in FB, others happen to quite enjoy it.  I think we have to be understanding of all approaches.  Where a discussion raises questions/content which is new, then that's definitely the time to bring those matters over to the forum since the one weakness of FB is that the content isn't easily documented and searched.  That's the way I'm trying to manage it, anyway.  Sorry if this isn’t how others would like it to be.

If anyone spots content on FB which hasn’t yet been covered on the forum, do please point this out.  It's a mark of the depth of quality content on the forum, however, that this rarely happens!

[Llafurio]

>>Just as it is the choice of some not to participate in FB, others happen to quite enjoy it.<<

I choose not to participate in Facebook.
Others happen to quite enjoy it.

That's the difference.

Claus Riepe

[Graham W]

I posted this warning in 2020 https://www.swallowyachtsassociation.org/smf/index.php/topic,2045.msg13633.html#msg13633.

let's be clear, the FB rules do not prevent participants from raising or responding to technical questions.

To quote from the SYA Facebook group rules* that everyone is asked to accept before joining:
“2. Posting in this Group - Support the SYA Forum
This group augments the Swallow Yachts Association Forum - http://www.swallowyachtsassociation.org. Some discussions work best in a forum, not on Facebook. Post appropriately.
3.  Posting in this Group - Technical Discussions
Technical discussions work best in a forum, not Facebook. Forum posts are easily searched & found in future. Where appropriate, post in the forum. Perhaps post a link to your forum topic on Facebook.”

I don’t see any evidence of even a light touch in recent lengthy Facebook posts about electric motors and gunter rig.  One member of the group did try to remind a fairly prolific technical poster about this but was brushed off.

* I had to roll up my trouser leg before I finally tracked down these rules.  If you want to see them, you are automatically enrolled in the group.  After that, they are invisible.  Leaving the group is a much trickier process, which is exactly what I would expect from Mr Zuckerberg’s sticky fingers.

[Julian Merson]

To quote from the SYA Facebook group rules….

I don’t see any evidence of even a light touch…

Yep, this confirms the rules guide folk towards the idea of using the forum but don’t compel. 
No evidence of a light touch probably shows that it is working.  If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
A poster has been encouraged to post on the forum.  They choose not to.  That’s their choice and I'm pleased we live in a world that allows everyone to exercise this…

Nobody can force anyone into using one forum rather than another.  I'm glad that there is a FB group for Swallows, even happier that this is under 'local' stewardship.  If we hadn’t set it up, then someone would have at some point, and then the oversight would have been completely out of the control of the SB Assoc.  You'll appreciate what has happened over on the Drascombe pages, which now have two competing FB groups, a similar vocal minority of FB dissenters over on their forum and absolutely no means of control by their Association.

Lastly, I really don’t mind (although I do care).  If someone wants to take over the admin role for our FB group, that's fine with me.  Life's too short!  I may be selling my BC20 but it doesn’t mean I've suddenly lost interest in Swallowboats.  I still think this is the prettiest craft on the water…or mud!

[Graham W]

Yep, this confirms the rules guide folk towards the idea of using the forum but don’t compel.  No evidence of a light touch probably shows that it is working.  If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

Er no, it just confirms an absence of proper moderation, particularly as the rules are somewhat invisible once you’ve joined the group.  Technical posts on Facebook beget more technical posts if people aren’t reminded every now and then of what the rules are.  If they then persist, that’s up to them.

Nobody can force anyone into using one forum rather than another.

I don’t see anyone other than you talking about force.  Surely an occasional reminder of the rules from a Facebook moderator isn’t too much to ask?  If it is, then perhaps, as you suggest, some kind Facebook enthusiast would like to take over your role.

I’m wondering why we’ve all bothered to contribute freely on this forum for all these years if our efforts are going to be diluted in this way.

[Sea Simon]

Have to say as a Facebook "non believer/heretic" I tend to agree with GW.

I see and understand the positives, with instant, almost effortless posting videos/photos of adventures etc...BUT the forum is the undoubtedly the place for technical type questions that create potential reference  materials.
 Its very sad to see the increasing, ill-disciplined,  bleed-across.

It is disappointing that having created the Facebook monster, "we" seem unwilling/unable to attempt to control it?
Surely  someone is willing to take responsibility to at least point ALL technical issues towards the forum? I understand that no-one can "force" anyone, but surely we could at least try nudging them?

[johnguy]

Julian is spot on with this. There are lots of ways to communicate and as keen Swallow owners we should embrace all of them, and people should be free to use the medium that they like best. I don't quite understand the anti FB mania. It works for old people like us, the yoof have snapchat and tik tok etc, none of them do us any harm. Live and let post.

[Julian Merson]

Its very sad to see the increasing, ill-disciplined,  bleed-across.
It is disappointing that having created the Facebook monster….

It's really disappointing to read this.  There is nothing on the SWB FB page which is remotely monstrous or ill-disciplined.  It's just a pleasant group where like-minded people go to indulge in their joy of Swallow Yachts.

…if our efforts are going to be diluted in this way….

I'd say the FB group is a useful place to direct the sorts of trivia which helps maintain the quality of this forum.  This place is strong enough to co-exist alongside other social groups.  Unlike the transitory nature of FB, this forum will still be there long after any FB posts have disappeared from view.  This forum continues to stand head and shoulders above other media in terms of the depth of its content.  Have faith in what you and many others have done to achieve this!

Live and let post.

Indeed!  Thank you for your support.  As previously stated, life is too short to worry about this.

[Jonathan Stuart]

I'm a FB admin along with Julian. There are 982 members of the FB group and I'll bet none are at the expense of the forum whereas some may know of the forum as a result of FB. I think it's largely co-existing harmoneously and without damaging this forum. I've just been through the past few months' posts on FB. There were a few posts which included technical content and we could have directed people to the forum. Sorry for that oversight. But, these are the minority and most posts are the transient, of-the-moment posts typical of FB. Those don't work on the forum and without FB that type of community chat wouldn't happen. I actually found one comment on FB where someone (not me or Julian) recommended the forum and said to post technical questions there (here) - see below. So, this message is understood and being shared. However, I will endeavour to be more consistent in recommending the forum for technical questions.

If you register for the forum, one of the admins should approve you quickly and then you’ll be able to post. They run the forum in their spare time so it sometimes takes a little while to be approved. They prefer to keep the forum for technical questions as quite a few of the members aren’t on Facebook. There isn’t a charge for joining the association and we’re all really friendly!

[Sea Simon]

JS,
That's  all good. Many thanks.

[Graham W]

JS,
That's  all good. Many thanks.

+1

[Sea Simon]

...but at risk of seeming  a little picky...

"If you register for the forum, one of the admins should approve you quickly and then you’ll be able to post. They run the forum in their spare time so it sometimes takes a little while to be approved. They prefer to keep the forum for technical questions as quite a few of the members aren’t on Facebook. There isn’t a charge for joining the association and we’re all really friendly!"

Could we perhaps emphasise that, the reason for Technical discussions  being diverted to the forum is so that group knowledge/experience can be captured, and later referenced via searches. Functions that are not always easy nor possible on facebook.
It's  not necessarily  because some of use don't use Facebook.

As a matter of fact, I  am a Facebook (and WhatsApp) user.
Who remembers Facebook predecessors  such as Friendster, and that one based on what school you went too*...? Where did all that info go?

The issue is that Facebook is not appropriate for technical and similar postings that create content for (what should be) a less transient, perhaps even semi-permanent, fully searchable reference asset.

"most posts are the transient, of-the-moment posts typical of FB. Those don't work on the forum and without FB that type of community chat wouldn't happen". Agreed and supported.

BTW, I see the Cape Cutter group are finding it necessary to copy across technical info from WhatsApp to their forum.



* A. Friends Reunited.

[Julian Merson]

….we’re all really friendly!"

I see the Cape Cutter group are finding it necessary to copy across technical info from WhatsApp to their forum.

Some of the comments above are most unwelcoming.  Were I to be following advice and bringing my discussion from FB to the forum, reading some of the stuff above, I'd be going straight back from whence I'd come.

The CC19 stance is exactly the way I've been managing the situation.  The difference is that this forum is much more extensive, to the point where there seems little point bringing a discussion to these pages where it’s all been discussed before.  You guys seem to get irritated enough by FB without crowding these pages with questions which have already been chewed over extensively.  That would be real 'dilution' to coin a word…