Hello! Advice needed BrExp or BC23

[PYoung]

Let me take this opportunity to say hello to all the members of this community. I am new to the world of Swallow boating, so I’m afraid I will be leaching more than I will be contributing until I have the experience to offer something worthwhile, so please excuse me.

I am in the process of deciding between the BR expedition or the BC 23. We are a family of 5 (2 adults & 3kids 11,8 & 4) and we will be mainly doing leisurely coastal hopping and some estuary sailing. From time to time we may have an extra couple of people on board, but I would assume from the cockpit restrictions it would only be for motoring around on a nice flat day.

A cabin would be essential for us a place to relax and make basic meals etc, and for occasional overnighting when we are light.

I haven’t seen the boats in the flesh, but from seeing photos & videos the BC 23 seems to have higher sides in the cockpit, which for sailing with young ones might give a little for reassurance when heeled.

I have never trailer sailed before either, so launching and recovering is new to me also. Is the BC23 a beast to handle when launching?

Anyway, I would love to get opinions on which boat I should concentrate my efforts on.

Any advice would be fantastic.

Many thanks in advance

[charliea]

Hi

I have a BRe and usually sail with my wife and two kids (10 and 12). A typical trip involves one or two nights aboard with a couple of week long trips every year. The kids sleep in the cuddy, my wife and I sleep in the cockpit, using boards and a cockpit tent. During the day the sprayhood provides really good shelter from the elements.

This works really well but we refer to the cuddy rather than the cabin and I think that's the best way to think of it unless you're sailing by yourself. We do all our cooking in the cockpit, during the day one or both of the kids might retire down to the cuddy to snooze or get out of the weather.

A similar question was asked about BRe cabin space here:

https://www.swallowyachtsassociation.org/?page_id=17&URL=https://www.swallowyachtsassociation.org/smf/index.php/topic,2017.msg13397.html#msg13397

If you are looking for a boat where five can relax in the cabin during the day the BC23 will be closer to what you're looking for, although I've never actually been in one.

Hope this helps.

Charlie

[PYoung]

Thanks Charlie, Really appreciate your response. That's a good insight to how you use your BRe.

I'd love to hear from any of the BR23 owners that do family cruising.

Best

Pete

[Graham W]

If I won tonight’s Euromillions lottery, I would definitely get a BC23 but have it on a mooring or in a marina.  I would keep my BR20 for trailer sailing, as I don’t think I could cope with solo retrieving the 330kg heavier BC23 for day sailing on impulse.

Are the cockpits of the BRe and BC23 approximately the same length?  The BC23 beam is wider by 1ft/0.3m, which would help stability when carrying lots of crew.

[PYoung]

That’s what I was thinking. Maybe get it on a drying mooring for summer and then trailer it back home for winter tinkering.

I was looking at the Cape Cutter 19 as an option, but the weight makes it look like a bit of a logistical nightmare to trailer around. It probably would mean buying a new car specifically for the job.

It’s amazing how light the Swallow boats are! Albeit, they are considerably more expensive than the competition, but it seems that Swallows can be towed by a modest sized family car rather than tractor!

[Graham W]

It’s amazing how light the Swallow boats are! Albeit, they are considerably more expensive than the competition, but it seems that Swallows can be towed by a modest sized family car rather than tractor!

I tow my 500kg BR20 on a braked trailer behind a 1.4 litre front wheel drive VW Golf. The engine got a bit hot during the exceptional heat wave at the end of July (especially going up the long hill on the M40 at Stokenchurch) but otherwise it copes well.

[Sea Simon]

The CCs are very handsome boats, especially as cutters with a yankee jib.
There are several hereabouts. A BRe seems able to outperfom them easily enough under sail.

They are heavy for their size, but seem to launch easily enough when using "an appropriate vehicle". Not a problem for us at the moment, as I have a modern diesel 4x4 SUV.
Maybe their legendary Honnor Marine trailers help?

The main issue for us was that the CC seems cruising focussed ("big" cabin...for 19ft) small cockpit, but with useable deck area on top of the cabin.
That said, its still a 19 ft boat and the "4 berth" cabin is way too cramped for us. Things will get harder with aging.
Another issue for me, was that the motor cannot easily be lifted clear of the water (rather like Shimpers). Perhaps new gen electric outboards will help solve this?

As our primary use is as a family beach-boat, yet with good sailing performance, the BRe with it's huge cockpit won out. It gets used at least weekly this way. Very occasionally overnight. The cabin gets most use as a "shed" to keep all the beach parafenalia dry, and out of the way when sailing..

Money no object?  Perhaps I'd have gone for the BC 23? Good compromise, but I did wince at tying up all that extra money, for very occasional use of the accommodation? Close to twice the price.
Personally the BC 26 is not for me, on asthetics alone.

Alternatively? There are some "unfashionable" larger keel boats currently about at bargain "fire sale" type prices (Covid sell-ups?). My pal has just bought a 36ft Dufour for well under £10k. The whole outfit... including tender, even the crockery! Of course, it's tired, and  dated, but has been much-loved, and still sails well, and... crucially...has standing headroom throughout. A much better bet than the BRe for weekending by the older gentleman, with grandchildren! At that price you could have the BR as a day sailer, and stay aboard the big boat?
The issue is that it needs an affordable deep water mooring. That I don't have...

[Baycruiser23]

Great question!
We have launched our BC23 this year and have done a lot of sailing in larger 37ft sailing boats in the Solent etc and further afield. We purchased the BC23 with a view that it has reasonable cabin space, which has been really well thought out in layout, and the advantage that we can place her wherever we want to go. Lockdown has meant only local sailing this year but we have really enjoyed being able to go up creeks etc where the lift keel is supreme. The great thing is that you can moor close to shore, or dry out so that if the dog / children want to explore etc its all possible.
Launch / retrieve is quite manageable and you always have the option of the marine crane lifting you out if needs be. We are now looking at a cockpit tent to increase living space and warmth in the early/ late season. I think for a young family the freedom of sailing and being able to go ashore is a real bonus and the BC is a nice safe environment to motor, sail and fish to your hearts content! Hope that helps Chris

[PYoung]

Thanks Chris, That really is helpful.

I too have sailed larger yachts around the solent and really enjoyed the experience. However there is something quite restrictive about sailing large yachts in and around our coastal waters, I feel that I am missing the point.

Like you say Chris, being able to land on a beach or discover creeks, for me, is the real delight of sailing. Thats what I like about the BC23, it seems like a good practical size for cruising with family and trailering.

Chris, do you mind me asking what vehicle you use for trailering?

Best

Pete

[Rob Johnstone]

I found that Matilda, a 4 x4 2.0l diesel Skoda Yeti would tow my BC23 very effectively on a braked trailer (up to an illegal 70 or more.)It even had some built in software that would arrest the dreaded trailer sway when I had not completely emptied the ballast tanks. The short rear overhang made reversing the ensemble quite easy too.
It was much better on the retrieve on a slip than the front wheel drive W Passat that I had used before.