Anchors, Chain & Warp

[Cappagh]

Hello,

Have searched the forum for a consensus as to anchors, chain and warp to carry on a BR20. Many of the opinions already stated appear to be for specific anchoring conditions.Will be trailering to a very diverse range of waters, so different tidal ranges, depths, currents and bottom conditions.

Am estimating an 8kg Brittany anchor, 6 metres of 10 mm chain and 30 metres of 12mm warp for the main anchor.  A kedge of around 3 or 4 kg Brittany? ( because I already have one, but not a valid reason) and am not sure of length & diameter of chain & warp. I will not skimp on safety but also have to be somewhat governed by storage and practicality issues such as fairlead specs.etc. Will be anchoring by day and night.

As a novice BR sailor I would love to hear members’ views on what is best to carry, especially the specifications of chain & warp and would greatly appreciate any suggestions and advice.

Thank you,

Stephen Foyle

[Llafurio]

Hi Stephen,

as a main anchor the 8kg Britany you have is not fully reliable, and quite useless on weed. With Britanies, the word is "the heavier, the better". A 12 kg Britany is the minimum weight recommended as main. C.

[Graham W]

Stephen,

As you have already said, the type of anchor and rode that you carry is dictated by where and how you are going to use it, so there really isn’t a general consensus.  Even a diligent expert like Panope on his YouTube channel (129 anchor videos so far!) hedges his bets a bit.

I had to look up the Britany anchor, which appears to be similar to what Panope calls a generic pivoting fluke anchor and is not highly rated by him.  He believes that there are newer designs out there which perform better in most conditions. 

Based on Panope’s recommendations and after buying (and then selling) several other types over the years, I’ve gone for a 6kg Spade as my main all-purpose bow anchor and have a lightweight Fortress FX-7 as my kedge.  I don’t think either anchor is particularly good on rocky bottoms and so bought an evil-looking grapnel in Greece for those conditions.

My Spade is on 10m of 7mm chain spliced to 40m of 10mm Liros Octoplait.  The Fortress is on 30m of Liros 10mm lead-weighted anchor line.  This line I think is what the yard now supplies as standard with a Spade anchor.  The season just ended was pretty feeble, with no cruising and quite a lot of lunch breaks anchored in shallow mud, so the Fortress saw by far the most use.  Next year will be different, I hope.

Jimmy Green Marine are good on their anchors and rodes and if you don’t want to wade through Panope’s videos, they have a helpful website section on what to choose.  And of course they can supply same, splices and all.

[Sea Simon]

Imho, you won't get a consensus, as there are too many environmental variables as well as personal preferences, even for this limited application. Maybe as much art as science?

I agree with both above posts.
However, I have ended up with a 6kg ROCNA Bower (was searching for a Spade, tbh but there happened to be a deal on the Rocna) and a Fortress Fx7 kedge, rigged very similarly to GW above.
In fact the Rocna replaced a 2nd Fx7 that similarly arrived with me via an irresistible deal...that Fx 7 was sold on. That had replaced an ancient (gen CQR) 8kg plough, that was a right pita, in many ways, and in modern terms is not a high performance anchor.

Similarly to GW, my main Rocna was hardly used this year (all lunch stops, over sand/mud; overnight only on moorings) but my Fx7 kedge did excellent duty there; so much easier to use than the Rocna!

My main point, I think, is that two FX7s was not a good idea, imho you should carry different types/classes of anchor.

Fwiw... I did try using my way-too-small (1kg?) Blue plastic Cooper anchor (rigged with 2m of chain + warp, from another of my boats) and that often struggled even as a lunch-kedge to the Fx7 as primary/bower when anchored off the sandy beach, but near rocks. Maybe with more chain?

[Sea Simon]

Should have added?

Another thought that maybe of advantage?

If racing/competing you can "legally" leave your heavy Rocna/Spade bower with all it's heavy chain ashore and the alloy Fx7 will suffice for compliance purposes.

Lord knows we need any weight reduction scheme we can take advantage of?
However, my wife has pointed out that rather than buying all this alloy/carbon fibre, it would be cheaper to drink less beer! And all the lifting/pulling of heavy weights might also be beneficial?

[Llafurio]

I must admit I myself never in 40 years of small boating needed more than a 8 kg Britany and a 6 kg folding grapnel. Probably because I only anchor in sheltered areas, and where the anchor holds. Small centreboard boats are good at getting into shallow sheltered nooks and crannies for overnighting.

[Ged]

I'm reading this book at the moment

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Happy-Hooking-Capt-Alex-Blackwell/dp/1795717416/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1N3BPSVJVXB4T&keywords=happy+hooking&qid=1637229606&sprefix=happy+hooking%2Caps%2C354&sr=8-1

It's very good and contains much more information than I will ever need.

My Storm 17 has different needs from your bigger boats but I now carry a 2.5Kg Mantus Supreme with a long chain... which never ceases to amaze me, I use it for most of my day to day anchoring - and a folded up Fortress FX7, thank you Sea Simon :-) which I keep in it's dedicated bag for when I need something with more holding power.

[Ged]

On the Cooper anchor website rather than the usual
anchor - chain - rope combination
they recommend anchor - rope - short chain - rope

Which means a shorter scope can be used and less weight needs to be carried.

[Cappagh]

Thank you gentlemen for your replies. I probably used the wrong word in “ consensus “.An anchor that could be best used over the widest range of ground conditions might have been more appropriate.

Anyway you have all been very helpful in narrowing down the myriad choices. Although I crew on a great many yacht deliveries I am quite ignorant of their anchor types. I know anchoring procedures but thankfully, as I don’t have to purchase them, I had no idea of the huge range, and the dark arts involved.

Graham, your choices sound extremely sensible and thanks for the you tube references etc. You are correct, the videos drive me cross eyed after a while and it’s great to have someone who has already watched them and come to a personal conclusion!  I had never heard of the Spade anchor but it does seem to have a very high utility/ weight appeal. Although expensive,and no Irish dealer,it would seem that it would be money well spent.Could get a relative or friend to bring one over here from the UK. The Fortress fx7 is readily available here and is actually cheaper than in the UK. Again, looks to be a great option as a kedge. 

Claus, you have saved me from buying an inappropriate anchor! I didn’t realise that the Britany was useless on weed and was perhaps unduly influenced by the price and  easy availability. I note your use of anchors but must also recognise that your skill level and experience is vastly superior to mine. For me, I am perhaps over cautious and if necessary to anchor quickly on a lee shore,  I really need to know the anchor will hold. We haven’t as many shallow anchorages as you, here on the South coast. However, am making plans to get a lot of sailing in your waters next year. God’s waters!

Simon,  Again, great sensible advice. I agree , an art as well as a science. I will go with the Fx as a kedge and am leaning towards the Spade as a main, both with appropriate chain and rope. As you say, the Fx by itself will mostly be adequate and would be a great weight saver. A big appeal to me.I didn’t know about the availability of the leaded line either, would certainly make for easier lowering and pulling of an anchor over the sides for a frequently used kedge. I love your wife’s further comment on weight saving. Quite correct but drinking less beer not an option for me!! ? Isn’t it dreadful the way ladies can cut to the root of the problem and we refuse to accept it! Of course, it wouldn’t sit lightly with our ethos of camping/ cruising…

Ged,  Very interesting re 3 to 1 rope, chain, rope. Had never heard of that. Looks like it can lead to valuable weight saving. Sorry, but am unlikely to read the book as my head is already spinning from an overload of information from the web!I should of course read it especially as I much prefer the written word on paper over the screen. 

Again, thank you all for the replies. This forum is a very valuable source of information for me and I prefer to listen to the experienced thoughts of association members than to the wider advice of manufacturers’ literature. Much appreciated.

Am very much leaning towards the Spade as a main and the Fx as a kedge unless the waters are muddied by further recommendations.  Plenty of time until the Spring but I would like to be ready for then and not to have to make hurried decisions. Will let you know what I end up with!

Many thanks,

Stephen

[Sea Simon]

Thanks for that G, this info came with the anchor.

No criticism of the Cooper by me, after all I'm using it on a boat almost twice their recommend size, albeit as a kedge to stop my BRe swinging about while anchored close-in or in gullies etc. The BRe lying to the FX7, by the bow or stern, depending on wind/sun.
Perhaps I'll try again with more chain next year?

I purchased this Cooper to briefly anchor my light EFRP racing dinghy just off the beach while dropping/collecting the launch trolley, and sailing singlehandedly (COVID times, no helpers allowed!).
At some stages of the tide, the beach is very stoney and I wanted the dinghy to stay afloat, and head to wind, and hopefully upright!
Worked well for that duty, even with no chain, which was ideal to save weight and protect the boat too.

Update. I found more chain in my store, and so now have >4m of 5mm stainless chain on this Cooper.
TBH...the plastic Cooper seems a bit pointless now? Although an (expensive) improvement over the small Danforth that it replaced for "beach/gulley kedge" duties.

[boomerangben]

Another Fortress user here, as a bower. Notwithstanding the “need to hook any bottom on a Lee shore”, the most important part of anchoring is matching your chosen spot to the anchor you have. Quite frankly you really only want to anchor a small boat in sand or mud as penetrating a stone based seabed needs a heavier anchor and weed is not going make a worry free night. Then it comes down to a matter of stowing an angry heavy piece of metal in the confines of our prides and joy. Interesting conundrum and do wonder if another anchor would be desirable but having spent a fair few nights comfortably attached to the west coast of Scotland, a fortress and 5m of chain plus 20m of nylon seems to fit the bill.

[jonno]

From another thread:

How do you get on with your "remote anchoring system"?

Good question.  A qualified ‘... getting on well with it’.  But it’s early days yet – we haven’t used it much.

Swapping from a BR20 to an Expedition, I worry about access to the foredeck.  I don’t want to be clambering over the cuddy, anchor in hand, in anything of a chop.  So we opted for the remote system.  It’s got to be an important safety feature - having a quickly deployable anchor set-up.  Three other advantages are that it won’t risk damaging the gelcoat (compared with hurriedly chucking anchor and rode over the side).  The anchor is secure and out-of-the-way.  The anchor’s support and sheave mean that the rode extends from nearer the end of the bowsprit – which in turn means that the rode won’t foul the bobstay.

The huge downside is the lack of chain.  I’ve wondered about inserting a couple of metres of chain – there’s just room for that length between the ring on the anchor and the clutch on the cuddy top.  But would just two metres make much difference?  And how to protect that pristine gelcoat? 

My thoughts at present are to keep the new system without modification.  I’ve got a Fortress FX-7 and a Rocna 4.  I’m considering upgrading the rode for the Fortress (with five or 10m chain and lots of rope).

Then I’d have that instantly deployable Spade.  Without chain, it would be perfectly suitable in sand/mud and reasonably benign conditions.  And for more challenging situations, the deployed Spade would buy me time to put out the Fortress at leisure – to replace the Spade or even in conjunction with it.  And I’d have the versatility of two very different anchors.

But, as I write, these are just thoughts.  I’d very much welcome advice from others.

By the way, we used Swallow Yachts’ new system on the new boat last August between the top end of Lismore and Loch Sunart.  Conditions were reasonably benign and the system worked perfectly.  Much better than on Rutland Water a week ago when it came up with a ton of weed.

[Sea Simon]

I hadn't realised, until my recent multi-chandler visits, that only the first 10m of these special anchor warps is leaded; the rest being normal double plait.

The purpose of my visits was to try to find blocks suitable for my centre board tackle overhaul project; very limited success, what a faff, more on that thread soon!

I left the leaded rope behind....although i like GWs set up, of leaded line on the Fortress kedge. This seems like an expensive way to be rid of 2m of stainless chain?

Jonno. How about a length of reinforced clear hose over the end of your anchor rope? Would it run over the bow roller?
Otherwise perhaps a length of plastic coated chain? However in my experience (bike security) these chains rust fairly quickly ashore, nevermind on your boat.

[jonno]

How about a length of reinforced clear hose over the end of your anchor rope? Would it run over the bow roller?
Otherwise perhaps a length of plastic coated chain? However in my experience (bike security) these chains rust fairly quickly ashore, nevermind on your boat.

Thanks.  Yes.  I'd wondered about a sleeve.  But I worry about it running freely over the roller.  I might try it.