Self Steering

[Ron Dierolf]

I noticed a post (I can't find it now) that mentioned self-steering for a BayRaider or a SeaRaider.  I've been experimenting with limited success.  There is an excellent book - out of print now but copies are available on amazon.com - by John Letcher.  There are also several good articles on the web.  Most of the articles focus on jib sheet to tiller systems which I have been unable to make work with the self-tacking rig.  Mainsheet to tiller systems are somewhat effective and I'm still playing with them but am not really happy.   I've run a line attached to the mainsheet to a block on the aft leeward cleat to the tiller.  The windward side of the tiller is balanced by a couple of lengths of surgical tubing hitched to the windward aft cleat.
Sometimes I get it balanced correctly and sometimes I don't.  The system seems very fickle.  I've seen mention of mizzen to tiller systems but no details.  I've tried a couple of makeshift hookups with no success.

Anyone out there had any success?

Ron Dierolf

R

[Craic]

Ron,
I have no solution, but maybe you have no problem. Because the BR can self-steer itself quite well without extra gadgets, but there are preconditions. Most production boats I know have too much play of the rudderblade, that must be sorted out first. And then you need to have a good tiller brake.
With these mods self-steering works quite well, within the usual limits, wind, course and waves.
A tiller pilot is not an option btw, there is no place for one.

[Tony]

Hi, Ron
 This is not self steering but it is a cheap, low tech way to keep my CBL on course for a time while I carry out some other task. I have two mooring cleats on the aft deck either side of the outboard well so a length of 6mm shockcord with loops tied at each end is just dropped over them. When needed, twist a loop over the tiller, the tension holds it in whatever position you choose but you can easily fine tune it by easing the tiller through the loop. When not needed it is not in the way, but in practice I keep it rigged constantly.
Advantages:
Cheaper than a proper tiller brake. Only takes seconds to fit or remove.
Disadvantage:
Tends to wear the varnish off the tiller. Would not like to use it when running with the wind.

[Andy Stobbart]

Hi there I am new to this forum though I have been lurking in the shadows for a while !  Time for my first post:

I have a copy of the John Letcher (what a great name !) book which I read with great interest because I was looking to see if I could get my current boat to self steer (I sail a 16'6" gaff rigged yawl dayboat not dissimilar to a Bayraider - she is quite a heavy boat so probably more like the Bayraider 20 than the 17).

JL describes how a Yawl rig can be made to self-steer on certain points of sail (close and broad reach) by careful trimming of the mizzen.  I have certainly found this to be true and easy enough to set up on my boat.  The key (I think) is to tie the tiller (I am fortunate enough to have a very cunning tiller brake on my boat) and then set the mizzen so that it is not drawing fully.  Then when the boat steers itself off the wind the mizzen draw increases and pushes the back of the boat downwind and thus the boat back upwind; conversely when the boat steers itself too far upwind the mizzen stops drawing and the mainsail and jib push the nose of the boat back downwind.  When you get it right you can feel the boat gently oscillating between sailing too pinched and sailing too open.  Sure you lose a bit of sailing speed but you can chill out and enjoy the view.

Now the question is "would this work on a Bayraider?".  Personally I can't see why not: even though the Bayraider is described as a Ketch, to my eye she is pretty close to a Yawl and very similar to my own boat with balanced Jib and Mizzen. According to JL the key to this method of self steering is to have a small sail at the far ends of the boat preferably overhanging the bow and stern so as to get the biggest "righting moment" out of the available canvas. Over to you lucky BR owners out there to try it out !

Hope this helps a bit !

[Julian Swindell]

Hi Andy
Welcome aboard.
What you describe is exactly how I sail my BayCruiser on a reach. I have a knotted rope, tightened with bungy at each end, which goes under the tiller and holds it in place via a cleat. I can balance the boat with the mizzen and then sail for up to 15 minutes hands-free when reaching or close hauled. It doesn't work so well if the sea is rough or down wind, but it can be a godsend on a reach. It's nice to just sit back with a coffee and relax. I can even nip into the cabin to get something, although that unbalances the boat so it can drift off course quickly if I stay down there. If I do start drifitng off course, I usually just adjust the mizzen slightly rather than the rudder. It is one of the beauties of what I think Matt is now calling the "Kawl rig" (Neither yawl nor ketch, but a bit of both)

[Ron Dierolf]

I've been somewhat successful using the mizzen with a tiller brake.  I am looking at taking this boat on a trip from Panama City to perhaps Key West (Florida, USA) - a distance of 600+ miles - next spring.  I was hoping to set up something that could steer the boat for an hour or more in steady winds.  The book by Letcher gave me this vision of lounging in the cockpit with my cold beer, watching the miles glide by under the keel while lifting nary a finger to steer.

I suppose I could get a large battery and a tiller autopilot but where would be the fun in that!

Thanks for all the advice.  I'll just keep experimenting. 

Ron

[Andy Stobbart]

Ron, you might find this article useful:

http://www.blueanarchy.org/selfsteering/index.html

Rgds, Andy

[Julian Swindell]

I have just posted this video clip of my BayCruiser steering herself for about two miles yesterday until the wind died on me:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_D4J8rp0KU

There was a reasonable swell, winds quite gentle and steady until they died out altogether

[Graham W]

I have installed a tiller tamer self-steering system on my BR which will also allow me to do forward-facing central steering from the rowing thwart (out of the Corfu sun and under an awning) when using the engine.  As others have pointed out, self steering is extremely useful when sailing single-handed to be able to set a course and then (more or less) stick to it as you fiddle about with stuff further forward. Central steering will stop me being burnt to a crisp when the wind fails.

I use a Davis tiller tamer mounted upside down on the tiller. I replaced the single blocks for the mizzen sheets on the stern with doubles from the same manufacturer (RWO).  The tiller tamer lines go aft from the tamer to the stern blocks and from there forward to the stern cleats. So the tamer line looks like an inverted W from above, looking aft. To use as central steering, lock the tamer, detach the lines from the cleats and attach new lines with trapeze handles on them which can be operated from the rowing thwart.  Works a treat.

[Julian Swindell]

I may have posted this before, but this photo shows my tiller jambing system and the videos show it in use. It is just a length of rope with knots in it and hooks on each end which hook onto bungee loops under the side decks. It is hooked tautly across the cockpit under the middle of the tiller. Under the tiller itself, in front of the rope, is a simple horned cleat. In use I just pull the rope forward and hook it over the cleat and that holds the tiller between whichever pair of knots bracket the cleat. I use it all the time almost as an unconscious habit. On the wind the boat will sail herself almost indefinitely. The longest I have left her is half an hour. I only had to take over steering to avoid hitting a fishing boat. It doesn't work particularly well off the wind, but will keep the tiller still long enough to nip into the cabin to get something. If I heave to in order to fiddle with the sails, I just push the tiller right down and hook the line over the cleat to hold it down. At anchor I just unhook it and the deck is clear for lounging.

http://youtu.be/s_D4J8rp0KU
http://youtu.be/4jGTjukq-qs
http://youtu.be/0Uxfl668f_8

[Graham W]

May I extol the benefits of surgical tubing? Used in conjunction with some sort of tiller tamer and conventional string, and attached in a loop to the aft cleats, it provides just the sort of consistent tension to keep self steered courses reasonably fine tuned.  This afternoon I went to windward without touching the tiller once in over an hour, except to avoid a lobster pot.  Wind was F3 and the self steered course was between 38 and 50 degrees apparent.  38 degrees when the wind strengthened and 50 when it died away, which is as it should be, more or less.  The tiller twitched as if it was being controlled by an Autohelm. Perhaps a fluke, so I shall keep testing it.

[Colin Morley]

Please can you define surgical tubing?
Is that a euphemism for articles to prevent STDs or making babies? Do you roll them on to the end of the thriller - sorry tiller?

[Graham W]

This stuff http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dive-Surgical-Tubing-Amber-Diameter/dp/B00549HA3M. I think much shorter lengths are available on eBay.

Following the rule that everything on board must have at least two uses, it could also make a handy tourniquet in case of bleeding out or, er, snakebite.  Divers use it to make spearguns. Its colour is described as amber but in reality it's a creepy flesh colour, with a touch of jaundice. Also available in black.

[Graham W]

Here's a photo of the apparatus in action about 15 minutes in to the self steering marathon.

[DE WITTE Jacques]

Hi there !
Sailing alone most of the time is easy and so wonderful on my wooden BR 20, Rhiannon.
But getting old, and having made true my dream of a cabin boat, happy new owner of one of the first BC23, I am now thinking about making everything easy with her, but this is a bit more complex than on Rhiannon!
Having an old but fully working Autohelm 800 pilot coming from a former boat, I wonder if someone here has ever tried to install that kind of stuff aboard a BayCruiser ?
Of course I am reading with the greatest care your clever answers to this important self-steering problem.
And would be most satisfied if I could make it simple, with a few ropes and blocks !
The blueanarchy article looks pretty interesting.
Any other recent feedbacks ?

My BC23’s name is now AZZAM, and she is currently moored in Arcachon’s harbour where I use to sail her in winter.

I will post ASAP a little text about my story with her.

Let’s keep our fingers crossed to be able to recover from this new plague we are living now.

Cheers to everyone !

D’Jack

+33633304475
dewittejacques@gmail.com