Bayraider supplementary forestay

[Peter Cockerton]

Just taken delivery of my new Bayraider and yes i'm like a dog with two dodaas. I have a single piece hollow wood mast which is some 24' long ( the only one of it's kind so far on a Bayraider i believe) and i would like to install a supplementary forestay so the mast does not fall if a mechanical failure occurs. Can anyone let me know if they have any concerns or if any ideas exist on how to install a second forestay which would also be helpfull in raising the mast if a second pair of hands were available.

Thanks

Peter

[Ron Dierolf]

I've been watching this thread hoping someone had addressed this.

I am a bit paranoid about this issue.  I obsessively inspect the halyard, shackle, roller furler, etc., before hoisting the jib and mast and sailing.  Having sailed larger boats all my life the absence of a forestay does make me nervous.

On the other hand, many small boats are set up this way.  I've had my Bayraider for a little over 6 months and have sailed in 35 mph winds with no issue whatsoever.  I think the weakest parts of the system will be the masthead block, mast cleat and head shackle. It looks to me like the jib luff wire and roller furler are plenty robust for the job and the masthead fitting would hold a truck. I'll probably replace my jib halyard every year - just to be safe.  The thing that makes me feel pretty good about the system is that my body weight is adequate to position the mast.  Tension is added to the system by raising the aft end of the jib boom but that tension shouldn't stress anything in the system to any level of significance - we are probably talking a couple of hundred pounds at rest.

I'm thinking about adding a deck fitting to which I can secure the halyard as a backup.  A thought that has crossed my mind is drilling a 1/4-inch hole in the mast tabernacle and installing a shackle to which I can tie the jib halyard.

As I said, I'm paranoid about this.  On the other hand, I've been a rock climber for 40 years and my paranoia has served me well.  Never assume anything.

Has anyone else thought about this?  Even if you haven't done anything I would be interested in your thoughts.

Ron

[John Davis]

This thought had crossed my mind too, although I too have suffered no problems with any boat rigged without a separate forestay.  An idea might be to persuade Mat to redesign the tabernacle so that a bolt can be passed through and across the tabernacle just ahead of the heel of the mast once it is up.  This would avoid having to worry about slack secondary forestays (after tensioning up the jib) fouling the jib and jibboom.

John

[Craic]

You can simply use an -added- spare halyard to the bow if and when things get rough and you want more protection. But no need really.

[Peter Cockerton]

I have installed a solution which will cover mechanical failure from the existing arrangement with exception to the rope loop securing the roller reefing system to the jib boom. The solution had to overcome the fouling of the secondary forstay with the jib and reefing system so i had a stainless steel bracket welded to the rectanguler plate fitted underneath the jib boom to extend the fixing point for the second forestay to clear the roller reefer.
In order to clear the rolled jib i fitted a stainless tab to the mast above the existing forestay and shroud plate which allowed a pulley block to be attached. A line secured to the new jib bracket through tjhe pulley and down to the mast cleats now provides additional protection against forestay failure. This method allows adjustment to the secondary forestay following tensioning of the jib. I will replace the tab i made with a stainless plate and tab as Matt fitted for the existing forestay and shrouds.

Thanks for your comments and thoughts.


Peter

[Ron Dierolf]

I can almost visualize your solution, but not quite.  Do you have a couple of pictures you could post?  While I have never had any problems at all I still worry a bit. 

One thing did happen.  While sailing a couple of weeks ago with a friend a serious storm came up - 40 mph+ gusts.  We furled the jib, double-reefed the main, and hove to with the main and mizzen sheeted in tight at the tiller about 75 degrees to windward.  My BayRaider rode out the storm like champ and we were actually quite comfortable under the dodger.  The ballast tank was full.

However, when we started to sail again the jib halyard had slipped or something had changed as the shouds were slack.  We had to run downwind for a bit while I tighted the jib halyard.  I don't know why or how that happened.  At that time I would have felt better with a separate forestay.

Has anyone else had this problem?  It wasn't serious but it did require correction.

Ron

[Julian Swindell]

Hi Ron
If you had furled your self tacking jib, the shrouds would go slack automatically. When the jib is furled, the back end of the jib boom goes down on the deck and the fore end goes up, slackening off the shrouds. You probably need to tighten up the jib halyard to make sure the mast doen't move around too much in those circumstances, especially if you still have your main sail up. It is, I think, an unavoidable feature of the balanced jib boom rig. I have got a conventional furling jib, which just roles up and that's it. But mine doesn't self tack. Everything is a compromise on boats.

[Craic]

Ron,
re the slackening of the jib halyard: I have that too. I put that down to the slippery Dyneema having too little grip on my nylon cleat. Nothing serious.

[Peter Cockerton]

Finaaly got round to taking the pictures that were requested and i hope they are good enough to show the details you need.

[Julian Swindell]

Peter
The weakest point on the self tacking club is the rope strop between the club and the stem head. The arrangement you have got does not address that but only protects against an unlikely failure of the furling gear or the jib halyard. If you want a back-up forestay, the best solution I can think of is to build a short, stayed bowsprit below the stemhead, which extends just beyond the fore end of the club, and fit a forestay to that. The club could swing behind it. But I really think you are trying to find a solution to a relatively non-existant problem. I know a beautiful boat where the entire rig collapsed without warning because of the failure of one shackle on one shroud. All the stays in the world won't help if just one bit fails. The best solution is to check your rig over each time you sail and see that everything is tight and unchafed. (I am the first to admit I don't practice what I preach!)

[Peter Cockerton]

Julian

Thanks for reading and applied thought, i can't argue with shortcoming as i declared it in my solution posting. To explain my paranoia i sometimes sail with the grandchildren on board and the thought of the 7 mtr wooden mast falling makes by b*m close. I accept you total solution but will not be implementing it due to the complexity and fixing arrangements required. The point on the rope strop is well made however that is very visible and lends itself to quick examination for wear or damage , other parts of the forestay are not. Anyway if this gives me 90% i settle for that. I may consider a wire strop as a secondary to the rope strop but with a length which results in it always being lose unless the rope strop fails.

[Jeff Curtis]

Being paranoid too I have added an aditional rope strop under slightly less tension to catch if the original fails. You can see from the photo that I have also moved the reefing line to the top of the boom where you can actually reach it.

[Peter Cockerton]

Jeff

Thanks for photograph, i will be doing the same to complete the "safety net" forestay.

[Ron Dierolf]

I've been out and am just getting back.  The last photograph in this thread is not clear to me.  Part of it is probably because, on my American computer, the photo is huge and I have to look at it section by section.

Does the supplemental rope run from the furler shackle to the masthead fitting?  Is it the blue rope that is just barely visible?  I like the idea as long as it doesn't interfere with the furler.

Thanks

Ron
USA

[Jeff Curtis]

Always a problem on this forum. What most of us do is to right click the photo and copy it to the desktop where it should assume a reasonable size.