BayRaider (GRP) Ballast Tank Emptying

[Craic]

I was not happy with the forward selfbailers. For a singlehander they are inconvenient to reach and to operate.

After a lot of experimenting I now have a solution which works much better for me.:

In the rear wall of the tank, set in as low as possible: In the middle, one 1" diameter opening bung plus two 3/4" diameter opening bungs on either side, as far out to the sides as possible..

Through these bungs, the ballast tank practically gravity-drains into the sump while the boat sails heeled or is under motor.

The sump is sucked dry through two Andersen  "Mini" selfbailers set into the bottom of the sump. The  'Mini' (for outside mounting`) bailers are the best of the lot, meaning they suck at lower speeds than most other selfbailers, and their joint sucking capacity is excellent. I found the Andersen 'Super Mini' and 'Maxi' etc. bailers disappointingly inefficient in comparison with the 'Mini'.
In addition I have fitted some conventional bilge pump sucking out the sump for when the boat is not moving.

[Jeff Curtis]

I like it. A valve in place of a bung could regulate the emptying rate to match the flow through the self bailers. I have an anderson 'large' to empty my ballast tank and I find it very efficent. It empties the tank in 12 minutes at 5 knots. I think the 'angle of attack' affects the efficiency of the self bailers as shifting crew weight can make or stop them working, especially the minis in the sump.

Now an idea for all you inventor chappies. How about a mechanical bilge pump for the sump operated by the boats forward motion.

[Paul Cross]

How about a small compressed air canister fed to the top of the ballast tanks.

simply open the self baliers, turn on compressed air and accelerate up to hull speed whilst clearing the tank in seconds.

Would be handy for a crafty turbo boost during races too.

[Simon Knight]

Claus,

I agree that the self bailers are hard to get at when sailing single handed.  Also I find that when I start hitting 5 knots I'm thinking of putting water into the tank rather than getting it out so they are a bit of a Catch 22.  I'm going for a bung in the rear of the tank and a manual bilge pump.

Re - compressed air - how about one of those old brass foot pumps connected to a valve mounted in a hatch cover....

Simon

[Craic]

Paul, Simon,

pumping some air cushion in can help a bit, but only when the boat lies quietly on even keel. But when the boat is heeled, the air blows out through a bailer before all the water is pressed out. We experimented with air years ago, but found it was not worth the extra complexity of fitting and connectiong a pump for it, and there are further serious complexities from pumping pressure into the tank, at some point you may easily cause a crack and leak where tank and hull are bonded and sealed together. If that happens you'll regret it.
Not recommended.

[Simon Knight]

Ooops sorry Claus, I wasn't being serious about the foot pump just my warped sense of humour.

But I do think a method of emptying the ballast tank while moored up is a good idea for those mornings where there is no wind.

best wishes

Simon

[Julian Swindell]

Could you use a submarine ballast tank technique? Have a flexible air bladder in the ballast tank and just simple water inlet holes in the hull bottom. When you want to flood the tank, just let the air out of the bladder. When you want to empty the tank, pump air into the bladder and it forces water out through the holes. Provided you can be sure you won't rupture the bladder, you can be confident of your buoyancy. Maybe you could have a big red panic button which fired CO2 cylindres when you wanted to empty the tank in a hurry. Or would that blow up your boat and leave you sitting on a big rubber bag?

[Peter Ivermee]

The simplest way to get rid of the water ballast is a small hand pump.  You open the large watertight access hatch, drop the pipe in and pump out in about 5 minutes.
Peter

[Julian Swindell]

The BayCruiser uses a fixed large capacity Whale bilge pump as the sole means of emptying the ballast tanks. No self bailers in the tank other than the forward facing one which fills it. It takes about 10-15 minutes of pumping, without other distractions. If you are actually sailing at the time it can take longer. Pumping out the ballast tanks with a simple hand pump would be pretty well impossible.

[Craic]

The simplest way to get rid of the water ballast is a small hand pump.  You open the large watertight access hatch, drop the pipe in and pump out in about 5 minutes.
Peter

No,
that is not simple at all when you are by yourself and have your two hands and eyes already full with sailing the boat.

The beauty of the sump bungs and the selfbailers in the sump is that all is within reach of the helm, and one does not have to open the main hatch (you need two hands for that) and operate any selfbailer inside the tank. Gravity draining the tank means that it happens by itself.
BTW, the flow rate of the bungs corresponds automatically with the selfbailers suction rate, as the filling level of the sump controls both.

[Peter Ivermee]

Yes, I meant a whale pump.  Admittedly difficult if sailing alone but mine is mounted next to the tiller so you can pump with one hand and steer with the other.  Obviously if self bailers work and you are proceeding swiftly enough that's easier.  I tend to find that I want to empty the bilges when I'm not travelling that fast and the self bailers never remove all the water.  Good idea to let it drain out into the rear sump.  On the Bay Raider there is a self bailer there.

[Craic]

... Obviously if self bailers work and you are proceeding swiftly enough that's easier.  I tend to find that I want to empty the bilges when I'm not travelling that fast and the self bailers never remove all the water.  Good idea to let it drain out into the rear sump.  On the Bay Raider there is a self bailer there.

That is why I had written. The one single selfbailer in the sump provided as standard by the yard (I think it's a 'Super Mini' mounted quite centrally in the sump) is not working too well. But since I retrofitted two 'Mini' bailers and positioned them further out to the sides of the sump, they suck pleasantly a lot of water from just about 3.7 knots onwards and for that it needs very little wind, or an engine with just above ticking over throttle.
Further, even though I have just the small Suzuki 2.5, with the two Minis even that small engine suffices to selfdrain and -bail the tank 95% through the sump bungs in very short time.

And yes, I also have two manual pumps for the sump and pipehosed crosswise, but with the 'Mini' bailers I hardly need them any more.

[Simon Knight]

I wonder if it would be possible to rig the pump so that it could be foot operated thus leaving both hands free for sailing the boat.

Simon

[Peter Ivermee]

I wanted to know boat speed so have bought a transom mounted device which is, not that I need it, also a fishfinder.  I thus have to install a battery and, while I'm at it, might put in an automatic bilge pump; then it's just the flick of a switch.

[Julian Swindell]

I wonder if it would be possible to rig the pump so that it could be foot operated thus leaving both hands free for sailing the boat.

Simon

I think you need your feet to brace yourself and it would be difficult to pump with one. I find the Whale bilge pump not too difficult to pump by hand, it is just a bit tedious. The real limiting factor is I can only pump on a port tack, so it all has to be planned a bit. Mind you, the wind has to be so low for you to want to pump out, you could probably sit on either side regardless of tack.