Author Topic: Not all Swallow Boats are BayRaiders!  (Read 119205 times)

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Tony

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Re: Not all Swallow Boats are BayRaiders!
« Reply #15 on: 10 Nov 2010, 10:40 »
One tiller position you can't use with the CBL behind-the-mizzen tiller is what my family calls, delicately, the clench grip.

Eye watering, Julian!  I wouldnt like to try it in a short chop.

Johan Ellingsen

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Re: Not all Swallow Boats are BayRaiders!
« Reply #16 on: 16 Nov 2010, 18:07 »
@Tony,

Am involved with Matt in urgent discussion about CBL berth lenghts.Apparently,the(very tall)owner of CBL2 has specified one extra long bunk.Matt tends to favour this-maybe with other trade-offs.

Are you happy with the arrangement on 4S ?

Is it a terrible impertinence to ask about Your Eminence´s height above sea level?
CBL "Lill-Freja"

Tony

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Re: Not all Swallow Boats are BayRaiders!
« Reply #17 on: 17 Nov 2010, 00:12 »
Hi, Johan.

I am five feet ten inches in my socks and  my wife is five feet four inches... (but she wouldnt be seen dead in my socks.)

When solo I can sleep either way round in the cabin. Head to bow means I can see through the cabin top hatch to check out the burgee on top of the mast for wind direction. Other way round and I have better access to the cockpit for nocturnal adventures with a bucket - and a handy shelf for my coffee cup.
 
Sleeping two up is no problem but you have to be at least on speaking terms and probably a lot more friendly than that - and you have to fill in the foot well to provide a head rest. This gives you more shoulder room at the widest part of the boat.
You can sleep with wash boards in or out. With the spray hood up the rain has to be almost horizontal before  you risk getting wet

Johan Ellingsen

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Re: Not all Swallow Boats are BayRaiders!
« Reply #18 on: 13 Dec 2010, 21:48 »
In particular,Tony,Julian,

Just to tell you and everybody,that after eliciting from Matt everything from old-fashioned looks(photo-documented!)to outright
aesthetic desperation,Work is in Progress!

Johan
CBL "Lill-Freja"

Julian Swindell

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Re: Not all Swallow Boats are BayRaiders!
« Reply #19 on: 13 Dec 2010, 22:36 »
This isn't just work in progress, this is near completion! Well done, it looks wonderful. When is launch day?
Swallowboats seem to be popping up all over the World.
Julian Swindell
BayCruiser 20 Daisy Grace
http://jegsboat.wordpress.com/
Guillemot building blog
https://jegsguillemot.wordpress.com/

Tony

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Re: Not all Swallow Boats are BayRaiders!
« Reply #20 on: 14 Dec 2010, 00:13 »
In particular,Tony,Julian,

Just to tell you and everybody,that after eliciting from Matt everything from old-fashioned looks(photo-documented!)to outright
aesthetic desperation,Work is in Progress!

Johan
This much I know...Matt wont build an ugly boat, or a needlessly slow one.

Dont keep us guessing, Johan. What changes have you made to the "original" CBL specification?
Balanced lug? Twin bilge boards? Gold plated bidet?
Have fun fitting out. I still havent got Four Sisters optimized after 6 years of improvements, modifications and reversions to the original. Perhaps you are more focussed!

Cheers!
Tony

Johan Ellingsen

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Re: Not all Swallow Boats are BayRaiders!
« Reply #21 on: 14 Dec 2010, 19:38 »
Tony,
All will soon be revealed!In need of advice:The 2 bulkhead hatches to the cabin-good?bad?essential?I thought maybe have one,build cabin furniture other side.Matt strongly against,advises 2 or 0.

/J.
CBL "Lill-Freja"

Johan Ellingsen

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Re: Not all Swallow Boats are BayRaiders!
« Reply #22 on: 14 Dec 2010, 20:42 »
Right,then:The new edition CBL,designed for the Baltic archipelagoes
and the odd inland sea.From the bottom up,single weighted C/B(75 kg Pb),Slightly modified hull-see cockpit,cat ketch rig with carbon spars,
mizzen standard,mainsail battened,w/lazy-jacks and zip sailbag.

Cockpit:S/D,with raised seats(slats)and coaming.Mainsheet track on edge of bridge-deck.Lockers:Stern lkr watertight with lid.Bridgedeck lkrs each side of C/B,lids in middle part,but lkrs extend to hull sides.
Cabin:One standard,one 20cm longer V-berth half(C/B case and mast between).Locker frame each side.Arrangement(remember I once posted an illustration from the Yawl Rob Roy?)to raise backward-facing seat-backs,to give approx space of reclining 1st-class airline seat.
Experience will have to dictate how to be comfortable below decks,add-ons etc.Toilet facilities:none!
Auxiliary propulsion:Torqeedo 1003 on quarter bracket.Will dismantle and go into stern lkr.Lithium batts,giving endurance of maybe 20 hrs at some sort of economy level,3 hrs at full go.A variety of charging options.No component will weigh over 9 kgs/18 lbs,so able to be taken ashore.

More to follow;evidently,all mistakes are mine,all foolishness averted is Matt´s!
CBL "Lill-Freja"

Tony

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Re: Not all Swallow Boats are BayRaiders!
« Reply #23 on: 14 Dec 2010, 23:55 »
Tony,
All will soon be revealed!In need of advice:The 2 bulkhead hatches to the cabin-good?bad?essential?I thought maybe have one,build cabin furniture other side.Matt strongly against,advises 2 or 0.

/J.
Re: Two bulkhead hatches.
Good for......
increased light levels in cabin,
increased ventilation in hot weather or humid conditions - or if you insist on cooking inside the cabin.
With the spray hood up, you can have the hatches wide open at night without any fear of rain entering the cabin - even driving rain from aft.
In cold weather the cabin snugs up quickly with the washboards in place. Being able to open a hatch a little prevents too much of a fug developing. First thing in the morning they are handy windows to view the world from the comfort of the sleeping bag.
Just the right size for the ships cat.
On the road, posting the mast and spars through one hatch keeps the cabin habitable for overnight stops and allows the washboards to be locked when towing. (Be careful not to let the spars overhang the width of the boat when trailing.)

Downside.
Sitting in the cockpit under the sprayhood with bulkhead as a backrest is very comfortable - until someone wants to open the hatch.
The temptation to use an open hatch as a step up onto the cabin top should be resisted.
An open hatch is a very efficient way to fill the cabin with water if you are ever knocked down, or broach off the top of a big wave. (I always sail with the hatches firmly dogged shut since that little experience... possibly the first time anyone rolled a Swallow boat through 360 degrees?) 
In very rough weather, having hatches closed and washboards sealed means that everything in the cabin is going to stay dry, whatever happens outside. The cabin is also one huge buoyancy tank, a great comfort if you ever get caught between two lots of powerboat wash at the same time.

Incidentally, the CBL hull shape keeps all in the cockpit dry when beating to windward, even without the spray hood.....and in torrential rain it is possible to sail the boat from the shelter of the spray hood by rigging control lines to the tiller. (I dont think this will work with your mainsheet arrangement, though. Lots of stuff is easier with a balanced lug mainsail.)

Tony

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Re: Not all Swallow Boats are BayRaiders!
« Reply #24 on: 29 Dec 2010, 15:38 »
Hi, Johan

Happy New Year (...to one and all...)

Do you have more photos or a launch date for the Baltic edition CBL 3? 

(I'm looking to steal any good ideas!)

Cheers!
Tony

Johan Ellingsen

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Re: Not all Swallow Boats are BayRaiders!
« Reply #25 on: 31 Dec 2010, 16:53 »
Greetings and Happy New Year from 61,47 N , 17 E !

Global warming here and no mistake:New Standard Unit of Snowfall(invented by me,who has to clear it)0,5m,every 4 days or so.Christmas was 3 days of -26,and strong winds.Better now.

CBL front:Matt is at the moment ,I gather,madly busy with a BC23 for the London show.My little sweetie looks to be launched on dry land,namely at the Stockholm show,5-13 March!Sorry,trying to advise new class name-Cardigan in Sweden is,a knitted garment,pop group or something to do with the Crimean War,depending of the age of the beholder.

Tony,your trust does you credit,but is sure to be misplaced!I went for your bulkhead hatches anyway..

Cheers!

Johan,cooling the bubbly
CBL "Lill-Freja"

Tony

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Re: Not all Swallow Boats are BayRaiders!
« Reply #26 on: 03 Jan 2011, 12:40 »
Hi, Johan.  Happy New Year!  (Again)

Good choice on the bulkhead hatches – especially if the Baltic climate varies between  minus 26 degrees in winter to plus 26 degrees in summer.  You'll  need the ventilation.  (In the UK the climate is typically less extreme  but if we arrange things so as to be comfortable in cold, damp conditions I think you could say it's pretty well covered.) 
26 below freezing is a bit much – even with Noomi Rapace to keep you warm! The lowest recorded here in Sherwood Forest was minus 14 and Maid Marion could  barely cope with it.

As far as a new class name for Swedish CBLs goes .....


For the benefit of Swedish Cardy wearers the potted history of the name is as follows:-

1.Cardigan, (Aberteifi, in Welsh) the walled town, grew up around a Castle built in 1093 by the Norman invader Robert Montgomery on the site of an earlier settlement of pirates and fishermen. The intention being to protect himself from the locals,  who were understandably annoyed at having a bunch of foreigners tell them who owned what. ( Most Welshmen still feel much the same.)
2.In 1176 the town host the first ever national Eisteddfod, but they didn't invite the Norman ruling class, strangely enough.
3.1199 town receives a Royal Charter. Locals not impressed.
4.1227 a weekly market starts, run by the townspeople, it continues  to this day.
5.By the end of the 17th century Cardigan is the most important town and port in the area  and so gives its name to the entire offshore region.  Port subsequently silted up when falling exports of herrings, coal - and Welshmen – makes dredging uneconomical.

6.James Brudenell, (1797-1868), 7th Earl of Cardigan, inherited the title but actually lived in Leicestershire, I believe. He was a stereotypical English (not Welsh) aristocrat – deeply snobbish, blinkered to the point of apparent stupidity and incompetence  but personally courageous and generous to a fault. Hence his association with the woollen garment introduced to save the lives of the poor bloody infantry sent to a winter campaign in the Crimea with tropical kit. (“Crimea? Somewhere near the Med I believe....like Cannes and...er... Biaritz..dontcha know.  Corporal! Pack me sunhat!)    No known link with Cardigan Bay either for the Earl or his woollen jacket!
7.Storm 19 dinghy developed by Matt Newland from the popular Storm 17, itself  a re-think of Nick Newland's Storm Petrel.
8.2005. The S19 hull shape used in a new design with a cuddy cabin, twin boards and a balanced lug sail – the mast having moved forward to make more room in the cabin. These radical changes in rig required a new name, hence  Cardigan Bay Lugger, a boat with a lug sail named for her place of origin.


If it hasnt got a lug sail its not a Lugger – and dont let Drascombe Gunter drivers tell you different. (Would you call a Mirror dinghy a lugger?) Drascombe Luggers havent had a lug sail since about 1966. The “Cardigan Bay” bit is still valid as a reference to its geographical origin (see Hastings Lugger, Yorkshire Coble, etc.) Why change it?    


Anyway. If a cool Swedish pop group can name itself - without a hint of irony - after a garment usually associated with little old ladies (or Val Doonican) and name its first album (Emmerdale,1994) after a B list soap opera mostly watched by little old ladies, I can only worry about the prospect of the CBL being renamed by the slightly less cool Swedish boating community!  Am I wrong, Johan?

Cheers,

Johan Ellingsen

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Re: Not all Swallow Boats are BayRaiders!
« Reply #27 on: 03 Jan 2011, 17:34 »
Well,the New Year started happily enough..my Swedish grandfather taught me the optimum champagne cooling method:pop it in a snowdrift for a couple of hours!

Tony,thanks for the amazing amount of Cardigan gen!Am only acquainted with his lordship from the Flashman Crimea book.No doubt grossly unfair,ahem.The humble point I was trying to raise was,the commercial advantage(to Matt)in a certain degree of brainstem conceptual recognition;also that vibes don´t always travel well.(Perhaps DO NOT READ THIS-in the 50:s there was a car called the Bristol Britt they tried to sell here,as a sort of sports coupé.Britt is a very strait-laced girl´s name."Morris Margaret",anyone?)Having said that,I´ll screw this particular lid down tight,and say that I´m extremely happy about the way things are going,CBL-wise.I had my previous boat for 25 years;25 more would see me 90,too ambitious that,but I´m certainly hoping for a good long stretch of wrinklie boating.
Pop over to Stockholm?

Cheers!,
Johan
CBL "Lill-Freja"

Julian Swindell

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Re: Not all Swallow Boats are BayRaiders!
« Reply #28 on: 03 Jan 2011, 22:37 »
Hmmm
The only Swede called Britt known in England was Britt Ekland. More un-laced than straight-laced if my memory serves me well. Probably why they called the car Britt.

I'm still not clear why Cardigan is called Cardigan.

And, to start a row, the sliding gunter IS a lug sail. Only one halyard, so the stick of wood is a yard which makes the sail a lug. A gaff sail has two halyards, peak and throat. Mind you Norfolk wherries mess up that definition by combining both halyards into one rope, but lets not go there.

What Swedish pop group is called "Cardigan" or have I missed something?
Julian Swindell
BayCruiser 20 Daisy Grace
http://jegsboat.wordpress.com/
Guillemot building blog
https://jegsguillemot.wordpress.com/

Paul Cross

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Re: Not all Swallow Boats are BayRaiders!
« Reply #29 on: 04 Jan 2011, 17:23 »
Julian
At last a subject I can comment upon..I'm hopeless on lug/gunter nomenclature but 90's pop...i'm your man

FYI

Swedish rock band "The Cardigans"...very trendy back in the 90's with two biggish UK hits..

Paul