Hole Filling; and Peel Ply

[Anthony Huggett]

Some reticence indeed, because didn't want to embarass Matt or annoy other members with "I've just bought a BR 17 kit" when they haven't quite been announced on the forum. Hence my comment on the BR17 thread.

I was actually going to buy a Storm 17 kit, but Matt didn't have one available for a test sail in mid October, so we test sailed his BR17 and decided it was worth the extra build effort and cash.
 
I've also not had much to say since I haven't even unpacked the kit yet - I went down with a shocking cold the day after we picked up the boat, and I have only just managed to get the garage sorted to the point that I am ready to start unpacking. I will be documenting the build on the forum. My insurers want a photographic record anyhow.

Interestingly on the BR17 Matt has dispensed with scarf joints on the panels in favour of interlocking fingers. I guess this is only viable with CNC cut panels. You will see how they turn out once I get started - the first real job is to join 18 pieces of ply into 6 long planks.

I think I'm actually the second customer for a BR17 kit, but I'm possibly the first to announce it on the forum.

[Julian Swindell]

I'm intrigued by the use of interlocking finger joints rather than the usual scarphs. Are the joints reinforced with fibreglass or do they just rely on the very long glue line for strength? Do you bind the panels together with ties or are they just butted tight to each other as the glue sets?

[Anthony Huggett]

Julian,
      For details of the finger joints see my other thread. The bottom panel gets coated in glass cloth and epoxy, but the side panels don't. The first finished finger joint seems very firm and strong.

      Cable ties are used where you would use wire ties on a Storm Build to join the 6 long planks together to make the hull, though of course on the BR17 there is a 7th plank for the transom.


Anthony

[Clem Freeman]

Anthony,

What swung you in favour of the BayRaider. Its a decision I'm trying to make. Hopefully will be seeing Matt at the London Boat show to confirm which one I want.

Clem

[Anthony Huggett]

Hi Clem,

Several factors swung it. I'm building the boat for us to use so I wanted confidence that I would enjoy sailing the finished boat.
We couldn't test a Storm 17 in October when I first got interested in building a Swallow Boat, but Matt kindly took us out in his BR17.

Water ballast was a big plus for my wife who isn't keen on unballasted boats (we've previously had various bigger boats up to 32 ft).

The transom design means that there is a lot more beam carried for more of the length and so the BR17 looks a lot bigger and more stable (though in reality it is only a few inches longer than the Storm 17).

The outboard well is a much better design, located on the centreline, forward of the rudder.

Thanks to the foam buoyancy in ballast tank (see Julian's post on my BR17 build thread) the cockpit sole is always above the waterline, even with the ballast tank flooded. It's self-draining rather than self-bailing.

The scarf joints on the major planks look like a really hard job on the Storm. On the BR17 you get finger joints instead, which I think are less daunting, but not necessarily quicker due to all the sanding to make a snug fit. See my "first finger joint" thread and you'll see what I mean.

The major downsides of BR17 vs Storm17 are cost (bigger boat plus false floor => more materials) and increased build time. And the fact that there aren't many home builders out there to share design-specific tips (though Julian from Denman Marine in Australia has been a huge help so far.)

I hope this helps in your decision.

Anthony

[Clem Freeman]

Thanks Anthony, sounds like you went through the same thought processes I am, the only difference is my wife is unlikely to ever go aboard as she is not keen on anything smaller than a cruise liner.

[Anthony Huggett]

Back to the original topic of this thread, I've bought enough peel ply to do my BR17 (bottom panels inside & out and all taped seams)

As I understand it, for hand (non vacuum) layup, the procedure is to spread thin epoxy over the job (using a small roller), apply glass cloth, stipple and smooth with brushes and more epoxy as necessary to wet out the glass cloth, add peel ply and apply more resin with a roller to wet out the peel ply.

Is that the right method? Or can I omit the stipple step and just roller over the top of the peel ply?

Anthony

[Jeremy]

There's no merit in adding resin on top of the peel ply, ideally you want the top dry (although it is inevitable that you'll have an excess of resin under the peel ply that will bleed through).

The most useful tool for getting as much resin as possible out of the glass cloth is a decent squeegee.  West make some nice yellow plastic ones that I personally fine very good.  The technique is to make sure there is a slight excess of resin on the glass cloth, then lay the peel ply, then work the resin out of the cloth, starting from the centre and working towards the edges.  You need to take care to not let the glass cloth get resin starved, but unless you use lots of pressure on the squeegee this isn't very likely.  What you will most likely find is that there is more surplus resin in the glass cloth than you would have thought.

I have found that it helps to smooth over curved surface with a gloved hand after going over it with the squeegee, somehow our hands are better at smoothing things out than a tool.

One important tip, make sure that the peel ply has no creases in it from being folded before laying it on.  I always keep peel ply carefully rolled to avoid any creasing.

Jeremy

[Anthony Huggett]

Jeremy,
     Thanks for the very helpful tips. I'll try to get some photos of doing the job so I can put them on here.

Anthony

[Anthony Huggett]

Note to self, and anyone else following this discussion:

Working alone it takes a good 2 or 3 hours to wet out the glass on the bottom panel of a BR17, and if you wait until you've finished the resin at the end where you started may have kicked. 

I think it would have been better to lay the peel ply in approximately 1 metre squares or thereabouts as I went along, rather than going for a complete sheet once I'd finished with the glass cloth wetting. I'll try this on the other side.

[Jeremy]

I always use 206 slow hardener for big jobs like this.  It takes around twice as long to start kicking off as 205 and in warmer weather it gives you a much longer working window. 

The downside with 206 is that it does take a lot longer to fully cure, in my experience, particularly if the temperature drops overnight.

You can buy the hardener separately, so a tin of 206 that you just use for the slow jobs may come in handy.

I'd avoid using small squares of peel ply if you can, as you will find it hard to pull off and you risk leaving peel ply fibres embedded in the surface at the edges.  It always seems to work best if you have a healthy peel ply overlap around the edges, so that if it does start to tear when you pull it off you have another bit nearby that is big enough to grab and limit the tearing.

Jeremy