Bilge pump

[Colin Morley]

I like my BayRaider because of the ability to tow it easily and then put in the water ballast. However, It takes quite a long time to drain the water just with the self bailers open unless the boat is going a lot more than 5 knot. If I leave it on a mooring or pontoon with the water still in it is impossible to get it out without motoring around for a while. So it seems to me that it needs a bilge pump for those situations. This needs to be quite powerful if one is not going to pump for many minutes. I have had a number of ideas but would be most grateful if any of you have experience of fitting a bilge pump.

Best wishes,

Colin Morley  James Caird

[Colin Morley]

Thank you Claus,

What I have found so far is very simple unless I have missed it. What I would like information on is:
1. Does any one have experience with electric bilge pumps?
2. If using hand pumps what capacity have people used and how long does it take to pump out 300 L by hand?
3. Where is the optimal place to mount it?

Many thanks for any advice

Colin
 

Colin,
you may not have found it yet, but there is suitable information on this forum already.

[Peter Ivermee]

I use a Whale Gusher Urchin screwed to the outboard bulkhead.  I feed the inlet pipe in through the large round hatch in the deck.  With a long flexible pipe it can be used to pump unwanted water out of anywhere within reasonable reach (not that I've had that problem).The outlet goes through a copper L bend through the bulkhead and out into the outboard well.  It works well but it does take 5 minutes determined pumping.  I'm thinking of fitting an electric version.

[Graham W]

Colin,

I also have a Whale Urchin screwed to the port side of the outboard bulkhead.  On my boat, this seems essential as the Andersen Super Mini self bailer mounted in the sump barely works at all, even at 6 knots (to be replaced this winter).  I have followed Claus's suggestion of drain plugs in the bottom of the ballast tank wall, draining in to the sump.  And I have also experimented with dropping an Attwood Waterbuster portable pump in to the top of the ballast tank but it is rather slow and I suspect would cost a fortune to run using D batteries.  The Whale GP1642 portable pump might be a better solution as it can run off the boat's rechargeable Yuasa battery (if you have one).

[Colin Morley]

Thank you for these thoughts. As for the self bailers. I have three. The front two that are standard with the boat and one next to the water inlet. I have found these three will empty the ballast tank but I have to be travelling at least 5 knots and it probably took ten minutes. I think a hand pump fitted to the outboard bulkhead is probably the answer with a flexible hose which I can put down the main access hole and the other end going over into the outboard well. The Whale urchin gusher says it does 43 L/min. That means 7 minutes of pumping flat out. I would like a bigger and faster one than that. Does anybody have experience of one that would shift 100 L/min? As for an electric one it would have to have a 12 volt battery. I am not clever enough to calculate how much current it would draw and so how big the battery would need to be. Any thoughts?

Water ballast is terrific but draining it when on a mooring or sailing slowly can be difficult with the fitted self bailers.

[Colin Morley]

Hi Claus, Thank you for your thoughts on improving the self bailers. I cannot find your suggestion for a fix. Can you give me the details or a pointer to the date it was published.
Best wishes,
Colin

Colin and all,
it has been known a good while now that in the plastic BR 20s the ballast tank emptying through the selfbailers built in by the yard does not work well. Upwards of 5 knots only, and slowly. 
Neither does the yard fit a bailing pump as standard or as option to help the process or to pump the water out while the boat is on a mooring.

I think this should have been addressed and fixed by the yard long ago. 
Because, with the fix I figured out and published here some time ago the sucking speed threshold is  reduced to 3.7 knots, and the emptying both under sail and under engine is quicker and more complete. 3.7 knots btw is well within the speed range provided by even the smallest outboards.
And to also fit a manual bailing pump for the sump (you may call it bilge) also is neither rocket science nor financial stress.

I would recommend you nag the yard to have these improvements introduced as standard asap now, because it really makes the boats work a lot better.

To fit an electric pump is only curing symptoms. The cause lies deeper, in the inefficient selfbailers inside the tank. This should be done first. I myself had at first fitted an electric bilge pump. But after changing the emptying system I could throw it out again. No more need then. The electric bilge pump also doesn't do the job quicker or completer, and sucks a lot of current. Not worth the fuss and the money.

[Colin Morley]

Just a bit more on this saga.

Today i bought a Whale gusher Titan hand bilge pump on the basis that it pumps about 100 L/min ( if you are a determined athlete). However, it is too big to fit on the bulkhead next to but slightly below the outboard. So now I am going to try the Wale Urchin, which several of you seem to be using. can you show me pictures of how you have this fitted and how you stow and use the hoses.

Thanks

Colin

[Graham W]

Here is my single Urchin, with an up-and-over arrangement into the outboard well, using two 1.5 inch elbows. I have a strum box at the intake end, positioned in the middle of the sump.

[Colin Morley]

[Here is my single Urchin, with an up-and-over arrangement into the outboard well, using two 1.5 inch elbows. I have a strum box at the intake end, positioned in the middle of the sump.

Thank you. Very helpful...except what do you do with the ballast tank end? Is it long enough to be placed through the red hatch or do you have holes in the back of the ballast tank with the hoses fixed into the ballast tank?  Also, how long does it take to empty the 300L with an Urchin pump?

[Graham W]

Acting on a suggestion that Claus made, I have three bungs in the rear wall of the ballast tank, low down in the sump. Not really used in anger yet, so I do not have any indication of how long it will take to pump out but the Urchin with the largest hose size of 1.5 inches certainly seems man enough for the job. I can tell you that my Super Mini self bailer in the sump is nbg.

There is no need to put the hose in the ballast tank if you have bung holes - the water level in the sump will find its own level through the open bungs as you pump out - or even if you do not. Swallow Boats put my bungs in for me.

[Graham W]

Deleted - hit the wrong button!

[Craic]

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[Craic]

Swallow Boats put my bungs in for me.

I wonder why they did not also fit the two additional Mini selfbailers, wouldn't have taken them much effort. And am pretty sure they also did not put in any tank airventing?

-All filling and emptying of the ballast tank is limited by adequate airventing of the tank. Loosening the main hatch is not enough by a long way -and not safe-, and having the hatch all open is ... having the ballast tank all open. -Compromises the safety and capsizing properties of the boat.

[Graham W]

I didn't ask them to put in the Minis as I didn't realise that the Super Mini was quite so ineffective.  I'll do the vent myself but I think large rectangular holes are a bit beyond my competence!

[Craic]

I didn't ask them to put in the Minis as I didn't realise that the Super Mini was quite so ineffective.  I'll do the vent myself but I think large rectangular holes are a bit beyond my competence!

I agree it is a somewhat more serious operation. However, it needs to be done and if the yard doesn't do it, there will be a boatbuilder near you who will do it for you, and in a jiffy.

There is a stencil for the cutout in the Andersen Mini box, you draw the outline onto the hull, drill a proper radius hole in all four corners and connect the holes using an electric jigsaw. You smoothe the cutout using a small drill with a router bit until the bailer fits well in. You then drill the fastening bolts through holes, and sink the holes underneath the hull.
Very important to seal all drill holes and coutout edges with one or two coats of Epoxy, and when you set the bailer in, use Sikaflex generously. Finally wipe off the surplus Sikaflex, ready.
The boatbuilder doesn't do it differently, only he does it quicker, and doesn't make mistakes.

It is not complicated or dangerous, but a mistake can be made, so I would really hope Swallowboats starts doing this for all its customers. It's an important improvement for the waterballast system of the plastic BRs. (The wooden BRs are different there.)