BRe reefing

[Jonathan Stuart]

Hi,

Another question for BRe owners. I have, so far, tolerated the mass of dangling reef lines you get when the main sail is lowered or reefed because these are part of a good setup. However, the last couple of trips when I have had to reef I have found that I can't get enough outhaul tension in the sail, which has affected performance sailing close hauled. This came to a head today when beating back on a rising F6. I need to fix this.

The problem seems to be that the nylon eye at the end of each reef line ends up a few inches forward of the deck clips that hold it to the boom. Pulling on the reef line just brings the sail down to this nylon eye but it also needs to go aft. If the nylon eye stayed by the deck clips then I assume the outhaul would be much better (I need to test this tomorrow). I'm not sure if the system is designed such that the nylon eye should stay aft (in which case the line should be fixed and not able to run through the deck clips) or if the line is meant to pull through the deck clips when the reefing line is pulled (which would pull the sail down and aft), although this latter behaviour doesn't happen as mentioned above.

I need to fix this because, by definition, when we need to reef the conditions are likely to be more challenging than normal and fast and easy reefing is required for safety.

Do others encounter this issue and how do you find the reefing lines work? Are you able to achieve a good sail shape and does the outhaul work?

Thanks,

Jonathan

[Peter Cockerton]

Jonathon

Not sure if you have sorted this yet if not a couple of photos would be interesting.
On my Bayraider i have the reefing lines fixed to the boom one end, up the left hand side of the sail, through the cringle and down the right hand side. I then have a rope loop around the boom which the line goes through. The line then goes back a couple of inches to a cheek bloc and then forward on the boom to a cleat.

The rope loop is the key and the fixing of it with a deck clip to underside of the boom at the correct distance along the boom to ensure when the sail is reefed the foot and leech are taught. The rope loop needs to be not much bigger than circumference of the boom, a second loop is fixed in position for the next slab.

Hope this helps with BRE rigging.

Peter

[Jonathan Stuart]

Peter,

Funnily enough, the day after I posted that topic, we were sailing and I noticed the reefing lines were in the problem position, so I took a photo. See below.

Your setup sounds similar to mine. The lines (outhaul and 2 reefs) have a nylon eye spliced at one end. This sits on the starboard side of the boom. The line goes through a deck clip, under the boom, through another deck clip on the boom's port side, up to and through the sail cringle, back down and through the nylon eye and forward to a clam cleat.

In the photo, the 2nd reef, rightmost, is really bad and the nylon eye is almost at the clam cleat. The outhaul's eye is also not in a great place and later in that sail I had to wrestle this back in to a better position in order to get a better sail shape.

When there is no tension on these lines they can move under the boom and the nylon eye typically moves forward. Under any sort of load the line won't easily run under the boom. Hence the problem builds over time and is then difficult to fix when on the water with sail raised.

The simple fix here would be to prevent the line from being able to freely run under the boom, so that each nylon eye remains in a fixed position. I just wonder why Matt didn't design it that way? (I have emailed him and asked this). If there is a reason why the line should be able to run freely under the boom then instead of fixing it in place I need to change it so it runs more freely, but as yet I can't see why that's needed.

Will let you know if/when I hear from Matt and unless I hear anything negative then I may just fix these lines so they can't move under the boom. If you have any thoughts as to why that would be a bad (or good) idea then pls let me know!

Jonathan

[Julian Swindell]

Jonathan
I have the same set up on my new boom as you have, and I think you are missing knots in your lines. The circular eyes in the reefing lines are hard anodised aluminium (or should be) and are very low friction, so work in this position very well. On my set up, there is a pair of knots in the line just behind the hard eye, one either side of the deck eye loop. That stops the hard eye moving more than an inch or so and the sail pulls down very tightly. I was sailing double reefed most of last weekend and it held shape very well.

The photo below shows the set up, although I have actually moved it all to the other side of the boom so that I can reef on a starboard tack.

[Jonathan Stuart]

Julian,

Thank you so much! I suspected these lines should be fixed but was equally open to this being my fault. I will add those knots and hopefully reefing will become more successful and pleasurable.

We were also sailing last weekend, near Falmouth, and it was a good F5-F6. Ballast tank full and just under jib & mizzen on Saturday. Wind started a bit lighter on the Sunday so used the main with a single reef. Had a great downwind sail and hit 7.6 knots. The wind picked up to a gusty F6 and we decided to head home (two children on board) but the sail was so baggy we could hardly make headway upwind, and my wife wasn't able to handle the boat while I battled to move the reefing eye back. So we motored home.

Jonathan

[Peter Cockerton]

Jonathon

See how its supposed to work now after looking at yours and Julians photos
Three comments

Still think a cheek block on side of boom to take the line from the reef cringle to the lock cleat has its benefits when the main is flogging.

The lock cleat clam or horn is better located at the front of the boom to aid single handed reefing process.

Also the front of the boom is always reachable and swings about less in a blow.

Peter

[Julian Swindell]

Peter
The simple solid eye works just as well as a cheek block, if not better. I have used both. The line can come in and out of the eye from any angle without any increase in friction as the eye is self aligning. if it comes into the block anywhere other than perfectly, it rubs on the side of the block cage and increases friction.

Taking the end of the line far forwards is a good idea as it is more reachable. I may replace mine at some time, but it means re-splicing in the hard eyes into the new line, which is a bit tricky. If you do have long lines, it is best to have one or two fair leads on them, or you can end up with festoons of rope hanging down into the cockpit.

What I haven't cracked yet is the best way to store the loose ends of the reefing lines when fully reefed. I always seem to have them coming loose and tangling things at an inappropriate time. I have seen another BC20 with small halyard bags fitted to the boom to hold the loose ends, but I think it looks a bit clumsy. I have got ideas to work on over the winter.

Someone, I can't remember who, advised, correctly, that it is best to have the reefing lines on the starboard side of the boom. Then if you are hauling in on them, you will be on a starboard tack and have notional right of way whilst you are fiddling about. Mine were built on the port side, so I moved them over. Easy with the hard eyes as only the cleats needed moving.

[Michael Rogers]

Julian

This is not my problem, so excuse my cheek in butting in. A possible solution to reefing lines stowage, which came to me while vacuuming the other day. Our cleaner (and probably many other designs as well) have two half cleats facing 'outwards' to stow the cable round, one of them being twistable for quick release of the whole coil. This is, of course, vertical on the body/handle of the cleaner. Would there be room (once you have led the lines to near the tack end of the boom) for a similar arrangement horizontally on the boom to wind the reefing lines round? Depending on what length of lines is involved, would about a foot between cleats be enough? And one each side of the boom?

Just a thought. I am rather into tidy line stowage at the moment, having quite a few free ends of lines all over the cockpit sole aft of the dagger board case. I have designed what I hope will be natty open-topped line tidy, but as it's peculiar to my peculiar requirements, I won't bore with the details.

Michael     Cavatina (Trouper 12)

[Peter Cockerton]

Julian

Sounds like "the eyes have it then" will keep the cheek blocks as they are fitted and work for me. I moved mine to starboard side as the main aligns straight if rigged on port side of boom thus giving me access to tack cringle easier. For the tack i have put on a stainless heavy wire gauge horn attached to a barton car, the track allows it to move up and down to provide cunningham. I did rig a triple block on the mast swivel bolt and have permanent reefing lines up to the reef tack cringles but i couldnt get it to pull straight but it did provide ab easy fast way to reef.

For the clew tack lines i put a horn cleat at very front of boom and use that for tidy of slack lines. Not perfect but dont fancy bags hanging from the boom.

Thanks for feedback


Peter

[Jonathan Stuart]

Yes, I suffer the same irritations with dangly lines. That is both when reefed and when the sail is lowered - I would dearly love to motor on to a pontoon without the reef lines swinging around looking for someone to garrote.

There is a very interesting article in the current edition of Dinghy Cruising that is relevant here. The author describes lots of modifications he has made to his lug sail to improve performance and make it easier to handle. There really are lots of good ideas there. His reefing ideas are particularly interesting and imaginative. Try and get a copy if you can. I'm going to look to see if any of his reefing ideas can be applied to my BRe.