Safety Notice - Trailer brakes

[Rob Johnstone]

Please remember to check the operation of your trailer brakes (if fitted). I found today that those on Vagabonds' trailer have failed.

The brakes are applied when a length of screwed rod pulls the inner cores of two "bowden" cables. These inner cores are joined to the screwed rod by a plate and two swaged end stops.

BOTH OF THE SWAGED END STOPS ON THE CABLES HAVE FAILED.

As you can see from the attached photo each swage seems to have slid cleanly off the end of its' cable. There is no sign of the swaged end stops in the vicinity to I assume it must have happened during the last road tow last year. No wonder it was a bit hairy.

[Andy Dingle]

Thanks for bringing this to our attention Rob. Although my trailer is unbraked it is a salutary lesson to check the trailer over at the start of the season.

On the subject of trailers, I've been giving a great deal of thought (amongst loads of other things!) re trailers for the BC23, I've heard some less than satisfactory anecdotes about some of them that have been supplied by SB.
As I say, a lot of what I have heard has been anecdotal and I would be very pleased to hear feedback on the Baycruiser trailers - which tend to be the braked ones - especially concerning launching and recovery.

Interestingly, there is a good YouTube video on the SB website of Matt recovering his first BC23 onto what appears to be a Bramber trailer where the vessel, with full tanks is winched very easily - albeit with a bit of grunt, onto the trailer and appears to line up and be recovered relatively easily.
As I understand it this is not always the case with some of the later trailers - which are not Brambers? Or is it a case of them not being set up properly for the boat they are carrying?

My own trailer with my current Bayraider20 is a Bramber and I have always been extremely pleased with it, the boat slips on and off the trailer in all sorts of environments like the proverbial well worn seaboot!
As such I am minded to source the trailer for my future BC23 myself - probably Bramber, though SBS, Indispension etc do similar, and to take the advice of the particular manufacturer in setting it up.

I'd be grateful for others thoughts, or experiences on this?

Andy

[jonno]

Andy, you mention anecdotes about trailers.

This is slightly off-topic, for my trailer is unbraked.  It's my early experience with a CLH trailer.  My Bayraider was new and on a new trailer.  After towing about a hundred miles, checking things, I noticed that bolts securing the 'rocking' systems on the support cradles were not secure.  The self-locking nuts had gone and the bolts had partially withdrawn (sorry, the accompanying photo is rather blurred).  I recall this had happened with three of the four supports.  If the bolts had come right out, the results might have been catastrophic.

Matt organised for a CLH dealer to come and fix things.

Jonno

[Andy Dingle]

Not off topic Jonno..  this is exactly the sort of thing that I have been getting feed back on.
I think that the trailer is a major part of the boats equipment and should be treated as such. We wouldn't go to sea without being fully confident in the boats seaworthiness nor should we be going on the road with a potentially dodgy trailer. Not to mention the seamless launching and recovery we expect from a modern well designed trailer.
We all take great care in choosing the right boat and equipment we want on her, but I tend to think that the trailer is an afterthought, and usually allow the builder/agent or whoever is supplying your boat to throw one in - trusting their judgement - I certainly did when I bought my BR and it fortunately turned out well. But now, with the benefit of hindsight I'll be looking into the trailer purchase with more care.

I'd be grateful for others thoughts on their trailers and any recommendations re make, set up etc? Especially, but not exclusively, the Baycruisers.

Thanks

Andy

[Rob Johnstone]

I've found the swaged ends for the brake cables - they weren't far away so probably failed under the load of the parking brake. The swages seem to have failed along a bend line made during the swaging process - see attached picture.
Rob J

[Rob Johnstone]

Regarding load / unloading BC23 on/from trailer.
I've managed it by myself a couple of times, although having helpers attached to stern ropes helps to keep the boat lined up with the trailer, particularly during cross winds. The angled rollers on the CLH trailer seem to manage to self align the boat, although it's taken me some time to adjust the various roller positions to my liking. Oddly enough, it's getting the boat into the water that seems to be most difficult - she seems to stick to the trailer. I noticed that Matt, at the LBS in January, looped the loading tape round one of the rear cross members of the trailer to use the winch to drag his demo boat off the trailer onto the stand.
Looking at my trailer the other day, I noticed that the angled rollers at the rear of the trailer had developed significant "flat spots" where they were taking the weight of the boat. This may be why it's so difficult to move her.I'll lift the back centre roller a bit once she's in the water.

Rob J
Apart from the afore mentioned brake problem, the built quality of my trailer seems good and the galvanising of the metal work has stood many salt water dunkings (so far).

[Simon Reeve]

Thanks for the warning re brakes. Will check mine regularly.

Re loading/unloading BC23, yes this can be a challenge. My experience with the CLH trailer:

Unloading, especially if slipway is at a shallow angle then getting the boat moving the first 12-18" needs the effort of 2 strongish people lifting and pushing at the bow. I've considered using some sort of lever bar but not found something suitable. At a steeper slipway angle, the trailer can be backed in deeper and the boat almost floats off. I tried borrowing an extension bar once which also helped but was hassle.

Loading, the challenge is keeping it straight. I've tried all positions, trailer in water, out and various part-way positions and would say only 1 in 5 times i get it on 1st time satisfactorily to within 2 or 3 inches of centre. Frequently it loads 6 inches off centre and comes close to coming off the front or mid roller. On one occasion with a side wind it came off the front roller and the side of the keel hit the frame removing gel coat in several places, see 1st photo. Haven't got around to seeking advice on repairing this. I note other trailer designs (non Swallow boats) have vertical bars at the back to assist loading. Have considered constructing something but not  done so as yet.

I sometimes think it would be worth spend time practising but the reality is there is usually a queue at the slipway and I would rather spend precious weekend hours sailing than loading/unloading.

As the boat stays in a boat park most of the time i don't worry about perfect centring (2nd photo shows typical worse position) If trailering by road and struggle to load centrally have considered resorting to car jack under keel to align it rather than repeated embarassment at the slipway!

On balance, I recommend unloading with trailer submerged as far as possible and loading it with the trailer wheels just in, water level below axle.

The only other problem I had was with the ratchet pin snapping off the winch, only 11 months from new (word doc). I contacted Matt who said he hadn't heard of this problem before and got a replacement ratchet kit sent direct from CLH which was easy to fit.

Simon

[Ian Loveday]

In the 2nd picture the roller look to be very close together.  I'm not at home so i can't check but im sure the rollers on my BR20 trailer are wider apart and the shaft of the roller is at about 45 degrees.  With the hull supported where it curves gravity seems to keep the boat central.  I'll check tonight and post a pic. 

[Jonathan Stuart]

One of the great things about forums is when you hear others having the same problems that you suffer and you realise that (hopefully) you're not the problem!

Simon talked about the problems aligning his boat on the trailer and I have the same issue with my BRe. It rarely goes on straight and I often end up pushing the boat off and having a second attempt at recovery. Even then the boat isn't normally as straight as I would like it. I can't work out the cause of the problem. The boat always starts going on fine and looks straight during the recovery, and then at some point it ends up wrong.

My CLH trailer is well made, appears to be of good quality and is surviving well. But I think CLH and/or SwallowBoats need to spend a bit more time developing/refining the setup for each boat.

When I took delivery of mine I found the stainless steel skids on the boat's hull hit the forward rollers and caused a terrible squealing noise during the last 6" or so of recovery (and I have heard the same noise on other's BR trailers). That was fixed by moving the rollers to the front side of the trailer bar rather than the back where they were mounted.

When recovering the boat the rear trailer bar pivots and that almost always ends up at 90 degrees to the trailer and the boat's bow hits it. Recovery is then impossible until a helper kicks the bar back down while I winch. Moving the rear rollers closer together would fix this but they are already as close as is sensible and I think such a change would make it harder to get the boat straight. Fixing this issue might be one of this year's jobs.

I also had problems with the boat rocking because there was too little weight on one or both of the front side rollers. That seems to be fixed after some adjustments.

The lighting board and number plate are too low so they either can't be seen from behind and/or hit the ground on bumps and inclines. I think that's been discussed elsewhere on the forum.

I also made some mud flaps for my trailer - simply by cutting some stiff rubber and bolting it through existing bolt holes on the mud guards - because the boat was frequently being blasted with mud and grit when towing (one of the downsides of living in the country and surrounded by dairy farms).

No big issues but I've had to spend more time under the trailer adjusting things than I would have liked and it irritates me that I can't get the boat straight, but I am a perfectionist so that sort of stuff really irks!

Finally, I find the boat is easy to launch once you get it moving. Obviously the more water the better but I've never had to get the hubs wet. For recovery I find too much water causes problems, esp with getting the boat aligned, and it is better to err on using the winch and rollers rather than relying on deeper water.

[Ian Cowie]

As a Drascombe Coaster owner I have no experience of recovering Bayraiders.

I can always dream!!!

I have a similar problem with the Coaster in getting it off the trailer. The accepted Drascombe method is to use the winch strop to back winch the boat off the trailer.

Take the strop to the first keel roller of the trailer and then return to the winching eye on the bow of the boat.Taking the strop down one side of the boat and back on the other to try and equalise the pull and keep the boat straight when winching off. Using a suitable piece of padding to prevent the strop hook from damaging the grp/wood on the bow. Tension the strop with the winch and ensuring that strap remains around the rubber keel roller. The boat should move back on the trailer to a point where a hefty shoulder shove can push the boat off the trailer and allow gravity to take it's course.

As to the problem of the boat not recovering straight is not a problem that I have with the Drascombe as the hull has a slight vee and the rollers are positioned to keep the boat straight. The BR23 seems to have a flatter aft section to the hull and so there is less vee for the rollers to purchase on and keep straight.

I have no trouble recovering my Coaster on to it's trailer. If anybody is sufficiently fed up with their crooked recovery of their BR23's I would be more than willing to arrange a straight swop of boats.

Ian Cowie
Drascombe Coaster "Moksha"

[Peter Cockerton]

My Bramber trailer and Br20 make launch and recovery are easy, i put the swinging arm just level with the water, with the bow just resting on the "V" of the arm i attach the winch and she aligns every time first time. The only problem i had which needed adjustment which suggests a shortfall on setup was the bilge runners being allowed to ride up the front rollers, this resulted in the boat sticking on launch, resolved by adjusting the winch pylon position on the trailer and the height and clamping position of the front rollers.

As the BRE is the same hull as the BR20 the design of the trailer by manafacturer or roller setup must be under question ( i guess stating the obvious).

After reading the problems on this post i would certainly pay a lot of attention to this and have practical demonstration before another purchase , just feel lucky that my combination works.

Jonathon can you fix the post on electric trailer winch as my photo,s have broken it again.

Peter

[Jonathan Stuart]

Fixed  .

[Simon Reeve]

Thanks for the tips. Two noted to try out:
- from Ian L, rear roller positions
- from Ian C, back winching off the trailer (I only hope this works so I don't have to resort to the boat swap option)

The Rutland Rally is at risk of being a trailer masterclass!

Simon

[Peter Cockerton]

Simon

I would seriously consider the "boat swap " option and as i seconded it letting me have first option on buying her. Lets discuss this after you have quenched your thirst in the White Horse.

Peter

[Ian Loveday]

Unfortunatly when I checked my trailer the rear most rollers are not as far apart as i suggested, The gap does look to be greater than on you picture but it is the other rollers that are running at an angle.