Swallow Yachts Association
Swallow Yachts Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: Julian Swindell on 17 Jul 2009, 22:40
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Nearly there. Matt launched BayCruiser 1, Daisy Grace yesterday for first test sail, and I went over and sailed for the first time today. Just jib and mizzen as it was force 5 plus, and all went well. Still final bits to do, but I am hoping to take her home and down to Poole Harbour by the middle of next week. I think there will be interesting capsize test videos shortly.
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Julian and Matt,
congratulations, she looks gorgeous.
More photos, please!
Claus
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Thanks Claus. I am walking around with a silly grin on my face. But I still have not seen her with the mainsail up yet, which will be very interesting. There is a horizontal full width batten near the top to give a big roach, which will look quite distinctive.
I have attached some more photos, but remember she is not finished yet. Spry hood and several fittings still to go on, interior fitted with cushions etc. Hope all done by next Wednesday
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I have added a YouTube video to my website to show how easy she is to launch
http://www.jegsweb.co.uk/boats/baycruiser/home.htm
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Julian,
I also like the inside, very much. I had no idea how much space is in there. I like that partition between dining and sleeping room. Cosy.
Best of luck for your first sails and henceforth.
Claus
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If you are interested, I have tried to convert my pages about my new BayCruiser into a blog (thought it was time I joined the 21st century) which is at the old link:
http://www.jegsweb.co.uk/boats/baycruiser/home.htm
I have got her on her mooring at Poole Harbour now and we (my daughter and I) had our first sail. Touched 6.4kts even though I barely knew what I was doing. She also motor sails against the wind and tide with fore and mizzen and a 2.3HP Honda outboard which was very reassuring. We even spent a night on board (two of us) and it all worked! A drop dead gorgeous boat.
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Hi Julian,
Sounds like you are very pleased with Daisy Grace, 6.4kts even with the extra weight of the cabin sounds really good. We were also out in Poole on Saturday, and it did get quite interesting in the afternoon. We came back from Arne to Baiter under jib and mizzen only in less than an hour against the tide, despite having to sail about for a while waiting for Barfleur to leave!
Are there any other Swallow boats in Poole?
Richard Cooper, Storm 17, Little Grebe, (Green hull)
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Hi Richard
We must have nearly bumped into each other. We sailed over to Arne for some shelter whilst I sorted out all the ropes on the mainsail. I had managed to get the reefing lines going under the boom when I rigged her and so had to unthread and rethread them before we could raise the main. After that we flew, but it got too windy for comfort getting back to Rockley, so we motor sailed.
I do not know if there are any other Swallows at Poole. Are you there often? It would be good to meet up.
Julian
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Are there any other Swallow boats in Poole?
Hi
I'm not in Poole but just along the coast at Christchurch. Must sail over to Poole soon. I don't trail the boat as I keep it on its trailer on a slipway in my garden (and I had to carry the trailer through the house!)
Peter
Bay Cruiser - Green hull
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Bay Cruiser - Green hull
Or, rather, Bay Raider
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Julian,
many thanks for your blog at http://www.jegsweb.co.uk/boats/baycruiser/home.htm
and all your input.
I am quite surprised how smooth everything seems to work on the boat after being launched just three weeks ago, and it being the first boat built. No teething probs?
You had several other somewhat similar size boats before, how would you say does the Baycruiser compare with them?
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Hi Claus,
There are of course teeting problems, especially with a brand new design, but they are remarkably few and none which interfere with the sailing. The main problem I have is a stiff rudder blade, which is not as it should be and Matt is going to sort it out after the season. I am also fiddling about with the rig, trying to sort out quite how the lazy jacks etc work (these are of my own concoction so don't blame Matt). I think I cracked it yesterday, but no camera to record the results
Comparing Daisy Grace with other designs reminds you that all boats are compromises. My old Winkle Brig had simple weighted centre boards, which hung down at an angle, and a shallow rudder. This meant she was a breeze in shallow water as they just kicked up and then dropped back down. The BayCruiser has deep foils which have to be held straight down by ropes. When you go into shallows they kick up with a bang, everyone jumps out of their skin and then you have to get them down again once you are in deep water, which is a bit of a fiddle. BUT, the BayCruiser screams to windward in a way that a Winkle Brig sailor couldn't dream of, partly because of those deep hydrofoils. You pays your money and you makes your choice, as they say. I am just delighted to be able to make serious up-wind progress against the tide, which I just couldn't do before.
Compared to my old Drascombe Dabber, the BayCruiser (and the open Bayraider) are just significant improvements on what I think is the best of the Drascombe range. Booms on main and mizzen make downwind sailing so much easier, and you don't get whipped by the block on the clew of the main. The Dabber pointed quite well, but couldn't sail fast to windward, so again, the up-wind performance of the BayCruiser is great. I have yet to try her without water ballast, I just flooded the tanks and then forgot about them to be honest. One day I will get up the nerve to try.
A crucial test was carried out yesterday. We have odd tides in Poole Harbour and yesterday there was a high tidal stand of about 6 hours when the water hardly rises or falls. I took the opportunity to sail her onto a beach, which is what my wife wants to be able to do. With the rudder and centreboard up, the bow goes right up onto dry land, whilst the stern is still afloat. After I had played around for a bit. I just had to get on board (very inelegant, she has quite high sides) walk to the stern and she floated off. With the Winkle Brig, if you grounded on a beach, you were there until either the tide lifted you off, or you could find a couple of strong helpers to give you a shove.
One thing I would advise any BayCruiser purchasers. Get the optional rubbing strips fitted. Not only do they look good, they work too. I clobbered the corner of a marina pontoon and it took a chunk out of the strip. Without it, it may have taken a chunk out of the hull.
One thing I am really mulling over is the engine. For a variety of reasons I am using a Honda 2.3HP. In "normal" conditions it pushes her along at 3-4kts, but it is not perfect. It has to be run at full power so it is very noisy. When I came back into the harbour against a full, 4kt spring tide, we only made it because we had full sail up and were motor sailing. The engine alone simply couldn't have done it. For this reason I was planning to get a 4HP outboard, but then I noticed that Suzuki's 6HP is the same weight as their 4HP, so I may go for that. As much as anything, it is because you can generally run a more powerful engine at lower, and therefore quieter, speed. I will keep you posted on the final decision.
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Julian,
very interesting.
Re the rudder blade stiffness,
I had similar. Took me a long time to find out it was not the slot of the stainless steel rudderhead being too tight, but the groove in the rudder for the down- and uphaul being too shallow.
In the BayRaider I found the rudderblade was too loose and having a lot of lateral play. I glued on 2 mm teakwood strips and sanded them down until the blade had a tight fit. Then I applied boat grease to the strips and now it is a perfect play-less fit without noticeable friction.
Re the centerboard coming up, I quite like that, because the boat does not get stuck in the process of dragging a ballasted board through the mud, the boat keeps moving after the cleat has released the downhaul.
And then it's simple enough to lower the board again to the actual depth available. BTW, I can adjust any depth of my centreboard, not just have it up OR down.
Sorry to hear you find the Honda 2.3 too small, but that could be as the BC hull has much more windage than the BR.
However, you may want to try the Suzuki 2.5 before you hang a heavy 6 HP on your stern. I find the Suzuki gives noticeably more push to the boat than the Honda. One contributing reason may be that the Suzi has a metal propeller vs. the Honda having the plastic one.
On my BR the Suzi gives 5.5 knots in calm conditions. The Suzi is also a lot quieter than the Honda due to the fact it is watercooled.
Hope this helps.
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Julian,
just realised what happened, why the Honda gives you only 3-4 kts.
You had the ballast water in, as you wrote, and that does make a big difference.
Typically you motor without the ballast water in, or you motor to get the ballast water sucked out.
Try motoring with the Suzi 2.5 and without ballast water, that will solve all your problem.
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Hi Claus,
You can set the BayCruiser centreboard at any depth too, with the uphaul/downhaul lines. I haven't experimented with different settings yet. One good feature is that the centreboard is deeper than the rudder, so it gives you warning you are in the shallows before the rudder is kicked up and you can often turn back into deep water before it does.
I had a tricky grounding situation at one point because of the very strong tidal currents we get here. Poole Harbour as I said has very odd tides. The range is very small, 2m or so max and often less than 0.5m, but the currents are very strong because of the narrow channels. I got caught aground across the current with both centre board and rudder blade stuck in the mud. The pressure of the current and wind on them meant I could not physically yank them up so I was stuck there in splendid isolation. I had to do a very common, but inherently risky Poole maneuver; drop all sails, grab a bow mooring line and jump over board to push the bow into the current. Worked well and then I thought, hmmm, now I have to get back in... Managed it somehow. You see people doing this all the time. Occasionally you see a sad figure standing waste deep in acres of open water watching their boat drifting away and hoping someone spots them! We are all mad.
Water ballast: the Baycruiser has two tanks holding 400litres. Matt thought that self drainers wouldn't really do the job so there is a big bilge pump fitted to empty them. It takes about 10 minutes if you have nothing else to do. Entering Poole against the flood amongst mass powerboats, cross currents and huge Channel ferries means you have lots to do and no time to pump out for an extra knot. What I really want is just extra power that I can call on to get out of what can be quite scary situations. The harbour entrance is only 300m wide, with a chain ferry across it and vicious cross current whirlpools. There are horror stories every year, The worse was about five years ago when an un-powered sailing dinghy was swept against the chain ferry by the tide and was forced right under it. It came up the far side and the woman on board was badly injured and I doubt ever went sailing again.
Have you any experience of Tohatsu outboards? I see a lot of them and they seem to be lighter than most.
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Hello Julian.
Have been following your thread re your new BayCruiser, a very nice boat, indeed, if I didn't have my BayRaider I would be very interested in ordering one. Your last comment re Tohatsu outboards prompted me to contact you.
I gave a lot of thought re the outboard that best suited my needs, as I too have to experience strong currents in a short tidal window. I already had a Tohatsu 3.5 that was adequate for my BayRaider but it was 2 stroke and I really wanted four stroke. Tohatsu do a 4 hp four stroke with an integral tank but my dealer told me that they also do a 5hp with both integral tank and a connection for a remote tank, (to save topping up the tank in heavy seas), it weighs the same as the 4hp. I ended up buying it and it has proven to be excellent. I believe the Tohatsu's are in fact Mercury/Mariner under another name and a lot cheaper! I think it would be ideal for the heavier BayCruiser?
Anyway, wish you well with your boat and hope to see her at some future event.
Andy Bayraider 'Psalter'
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Hi Andy
I had just discovered that Tohatsu/Mariner/Mercury are all the same engines, apart from the price. Interested to hear your experience. I noticed tht they also do a 6HP on the same engine block/weight, so I was tempted to go for that. Suzuki do a 4HP and 6HP which apparently are identical except fot the throttle setting, which is wider on the 6HP. For this you pay £200 extra!
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Hello Julian
Congratulations on the launch of your BayCruiser.
You say you had problems with your lazy jacks, am I right in thinking you have opted for a sail stack/pack system?
Regards Terry Cross
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Hi Terry,
No I settled for a conventional boom and mainsail. I have fitted lazyjacks either side, supporting the boom at about one third and two third positions. I am still fiddling with them but basically I pull a line which comes from the base of the mast which tightens up the lazyjacks, and drop the mainsail between them. It works well. If you turn right into the wind, the sail just drops. If you are sligtly off the wind, you may have to grab a handfull and give it a pull. The lazy jacks are a little tight when the sail is full, but I have plans which will allow me to let them right out. It is also nice to be able to pull them in enough to really cock the boom high up. I like to do that if I am motoring as I like to stand up then. It gives a better view of shallows, rocks etc. If the boom is pulled high, it is right out of the way.
Daisy Grace is tied up to a pontoon at the momemnt with her masts down, ready to be hauled out in a couple of days time.
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I had just discovered that Tohatsu/Mariner/Mercury are all the same engines, apart from the price. Interested to hear your experience. I noticed tht they also do a 6HP on the same engine block/weight, so I was tempted to go for that.
Hi Julian
Congratulations on your new Baycruiser. I opted for a 6hp Mariner on my BayRaider primarily as the 4/5/6 hp Tohatsu based engines do not use a shear pin to protect the propeller; they have a rubber clutch in the prop just like on larger outboards. All these engines are basically the same but the 4hp has an integral fuel tank so is taller and slightly heavier, more so when full of fuel. My local dealer stocked Mariner's so that's what I got but I'd shop around for the cheapest deal if I was doing it again. I had to fit wedges to the outboard mounting board (transom?) to get it to sit lower in the raised position, otherwise the anti-cavitation plate fouled the rudder mechanism. And the leg is a bit big for the sealing fingers in the outboard well; I'm still working on that problem. But it goes for ever on a tank of petrol, will trickle along at a knot or two on tickover and has enough power to get me into Portsmouth harbour against the ebb - ballasted. It is a single cylinder four-stroke so it does vibrate a bit and it's noisier than I was expecting. You have to put the gear lever into forward before you can tilt the engine and you need two hands to get it down again. And to flush the engine you have to remove a screw in plug, fit an adaptor (£8.00 for the Mariner!!!) and hose and flush through with fresh water without starting the engine.
Good Luck
Jeff
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Hi Jeff,
I have been very pleased with the Tohatsu and have discovered everything you have. Why you have to put it into forward to release it for tilting I don't understand. I bought the 6HP model and got the dual fuel version, even though I only paid the single, external tank price. Si I have an integral tank and a separate tank, which is quite useful.
On the BayCruiser, the power leg really fills the outboard well. If you just tilt it up, without turning it on its side, you can't use the rudder. When you turn it on its side, it only just fits in, but it does. If you leave it down, it slows the boat and makes it very hard to tack, so it has to be tilted up.
I would be really surprised if the propeller is held on in a different way on the Mariners, as the engine look absolutely identical to me, apart from the price. I committed the sin of storing it on the wrong side last week, but found that it started fine the next day, which was a relief.