Swallow Yachts Association
Swallow Yachts Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: Rod Shiers on 20 Oct 2017, 17:51
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Dear All
I've recently ordered my first trailer sailor, which I'm planning to keep near my home in the Peak District - it's in 'landlocked Derbyshire' but very central for trailing anywhere. I'm planning to explore the Estuaries and rivers I've never had time to sail in the past. I've been cruising for over 30 years both in England and the Med. Would any other 23 owners have any tips as to what equipment they have which they don't use, or wish they had bought first time round? Also the choice of potential tow vehicles seems enormous - again any experiences would be useful.
Many thanks
Rod Shiers
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I'd be interested in the same thoughts - I'm about to pick up BC23 Golightly which Matt is selling to me. She'll be renamed though as he wants to keep the name, current favourite is Juno.
Pretty sure I'll be adding a fixed VHF, there's already a chartplotter and depth sounder. Not sure about an autotiller, which I love on my previous boat. I think I'll wait and see if I can manage without, but that depends on how stable she turns out to be with a tiller tamer device.
Camping stove and portapotti are going in as well.
What else will I need?
Mark
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Way back in the previous century, I bought a secondhand 20' gaff-rigged Norfolk Gypsy that came with a diesel inboard and all sorts of electronics already installed. The Autohelm tiller pilot that interfaced with the wind instruments was particularly helpful when solo, which was nearly all the time. With the engine on slow ahead, I could set the tiller pilot to steer directly into the wind and it would reliably stay there, regardless of changes in wind direction. Very useful when reefing, raising and dropping sail.
In the unlikely event of winning the lottery, living on the coast and therefore buying a BC23 (no mizzen), I think I would have the same electronics again. Probably with two lithium batteries instead of one lead one.
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Welcome to this forum Rod and well done, Mark as well, for getting probably the best trailer sailor available anywhere!
I've had my BC23 now for over three years and have sailed quite extensively in all sort of conditions.
I expect there are quite a few potential new BC23 owners out there after talking to Matt at the SBS, so here are my observations .. Another Dingle stitherum..
Deck.
Ground tackle is essential so get the bow roller, I'd like some kind of 'protection' to stop the anchor knocking against the bow gel coat when lifting it. I use a 6 kg delta, with 30m of warp and 6m of chain. Works well and it all fits in the anchor lockers. The samson post is fine, but could be a bit higher and with cleats fitted to it.
Additional midships cleats are invaluable, recommend them. The cleats are fitted 'lower' than the gun'ls so fairleads are essential, I now have four pairs of fairleads fitted down the boat, particularly level with the samson post.
There is still no where to hang fenders!
A sprayhood is to me, essential. Don't skimp on that. I'm fitting some (battery operated) bright LED's inside the sprayhood for a bit of light when coming back to the boat after a 'run ashore' at night.
I've also had that faux teak plastic stuff (permateak?) fitted all round the cockpit, it works and looks really nice. I've got cockpit tidy bags on each side of the companionway - though you can easily retro fit them and probably cheaper than the yard. A winch handle pocket too on the stbd side. (Get a spare winch handle!)
I ordered harness secure points in the cockpit and just forward of the fore glass hatch in case I have to forward.
Cockpit tent would be desirable I think, but I don't have one as yet.
Your deck fittings will really need some thought, I have spinlock clutches and PXR's for the genoa sheets - good, but I find when under a lot of tension they are difficult to release. Tho' I think Matt has changed these now.
Some kind of tiller tamer is desireable - I have an autopilot (see Graham's post above, that is exactly what i do with mine) but I also fitted a couple of small pad eyes on the aft of the rail on each locker to take a rope/shock cord to the tiller for quickly lashing it off.
I'd ask Matt to fit a hole through the aft end of the stbd locker for the o/b fuel pipe - the tank is stowed in the locker. Ventilation grill would be a good idea too.
The deck aft end of the cocpit is perfect for solar panels and I have two 20w panels fitted there.
The traveller 'behind' you isn't the best, but is probably the only place it can be. I'm still experimenting with the car to get it as I like..
A jackstaff is a good idea - I recently realised that I don't have anywhere to fly a flag - racing flags, courtesy etc.
I had a canvas cockpit cover made up (I'm in a marina) it protects the cockpit from weather but more importantly it hides the outboard from inquisitive ne'er do wells.
Woodwork.
If I was ordering new again, I'd just have plain teak woodwork for gun'ls, rubbing strakes and coachroof handles and either leave it alone entirely or treat with a light oil. The current cetol stuff hasn't really worked (is rubbish really!) and I now have a winter job to bring it back to it's original beauty this year.
Rigging.
I have the Aero Luff Spar system on my genoa - get it, if you can! It's a must!
I'm still not entirely convinced with the dynema shrouds and lanyard thing - others may disagree. I may change them yet to stainless and turnbuckles, having said that they do work - so personal choice there.
Think carefully about reefing. I ordered single line, which I have now changed to a very basic but simple slab system, all with lines back to the cockpit. When you get your boat - I would urge you to practice reefing and experiment until you get it just right. I have found she will sail beautifully reefed right down, so don't be shy to reduce sail - the aeroluff spar works well to reef the genoa too.
Lazy jacks and a sail bag are just brilliant, makes life so much easier.
Not sure if spreaders on the mast are standard now, if not, I'd have them.
Topping lift - have one! You can easily fit it after delivery, but make sure you have the capacity in your deck tidy's - I had them doubled up port and stbd to take extra string, eg I have a 'spare' halyard up to the hounds, for an asymmetric etc.
Below.
I have a 'panel' fitted below the companionway for electric stuff - have a look at the Swallow Yachts website, the 360 view of the BC23 is actually my boat (without my cushions). It works well and is handy.
The cushions I acquired separately - mine are five ins thick, softer and cheaper than the standard. Well worth it. I have extra wide hatch covers under the two side berths for storage. I actually use those 5 litre bottles of water from tesco etc, as my main water supply. Three or four each side are stored under the side bunks, alongside other essential beverages and I've dispensed with the standard flexi water tank.
Matt made me some clever gimbals for the standard flat cooker, cheap and easy, I can safely boil a kettle in any kind of sea - ask Matt or I can send pics. For heating I use a 'camping' gas heater that takes the same gas cartridges as the cooker, quick and simple warmth. Millets I think for about 15 quid. The same for shore power, a camping/tent elec hook up, has three 13amp sockets and an rcd to plug into marina mains for about £20. Carbon monoxide alarm of course.
I have two 40 aph batteries in the forepeak, under the bed alongside the forward water tank viewing hatch. (NB Graham, I note what you say about Lithium, I'll look into that, good idea).
Portapotti 'facilities' with a flexi bucket that lives in the outboard well for general use! No one is ever allowed to stand on the side decks at sea.
Electrics.
A fixed vhf is pretty well essential. In my experience it is mandatory to continually monitor respective VTS's as well as the (advisable) Ch 16. I have one which has gps/ais/dsc all built in and I use it a lot in addition to a handheld. I also have a remote mic to my main vhf set in the cockpit (if you want further on this set up, let me know).
Depth clock of some kind is also pretty essential of course. Note the BC23 has a 'cored' hull so the 'shoot through' transducers don't work. You'll need a hole drilled through your hull for the transducer! As standard I think this is under the sink, so Matt will need the transducer as he builds the boat.
Having said that, I've just fitted a 'secondary' Garmin striker depth, using the supplied transom transducer that I fitted on a bracket under the boat from the outboard mount, in the outboard well - works great!
A mast head aerial will be required so get Matt to fit that too (with mast head nav lights, wind systems etc) as cables will need to be moused thro' the mast and terminals fitted to the coach roof. (I have the NASA wireless wind system, works well so far).
Solar panels etc too will need to be fitted as the boat is built as the cables will need to be 'built in' through bulkheads and buoyancy tanks.
Navigation aids are personal choice. I use a chart plotter (but mostly a Yeoman plotter with paper charts) but I sailed a friends yacht recently and he had one of those tablet things with charts on it - very impressive! Think I'll get one, the Visit My Harbour set up seems good and cheap.
I also have an epirb strapped to my life jacket.
I've just built a panel that holds all the external electrical bits that's mounted on one of those flat tv screen adjustable mounting brackets so it can easily swing out of the saloon and into the cockpit for use at sea.
Electric pump for the water ballast is very useful, mine is a bit slow, but happily slurps away until the tanks are empty.
Trailer/vehicle.
I'd be most surprised if your trailer was set up properly at first. Most aren't! So expect some hassle moving rollers etc until you can launch and recover as easily (easier!) than most dinghies. She really is no problem on the slip way when you are set up properly. A two speed (or electric?) winch is useful, but do get a spare winch handle (they are detachable), if you lose it (which I did!) You are really in the mire!
I guestimate a towing weight of about 1500 - 1600 kg, maybe a bit more, so most biggish cars will be no problem. Four wheel drive is always handy of course. I use an audi estate alldrive car, which does me for normal daily use and towing the boat.
I'm sure there are loads I've forgotten. And I'm sure other owners have different and better idea's than I do.
I'm in the Lincolnshire Wolds so not that far from you - Equinox is on the water in a marina in Grimsby. If you would like to come over and see her and talk through things and/or go for a sail any time - as is anyone who is interested of course - you're very welcome, just let me know on equinox25 at gmx.com.
Regards
Andy and Equinox
ps 'Stitherum' - Lincolnshire dialect for long dull boring tale!
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Hi Rod,
A few comments from me based on my BC20 experience and following Andy's "stitherum".
Steering: I sail single handed and find an electronic Tiller Pilot almost vital for the purposes Graham mentions. I also have a rope based "tiller tamer" but it can't cope with changes in wind force and the changes in sail set up as you reef in the same way the Tiller Pilot does.
Woodwork: I specified teak for the trim bits and don't regret it. I've left it untreated and use Boracol (as recommended by Hallberg Rassy) on a very infrequent basis to keep any "green stuff" at bay (Seatern is on the water and the woodwork exposed all year). No need for oiling or varnishing the teak. I also used teak panels for the cockpit seats and a teak grating for the cockpit floor which is much less slippery (particularly when frosty) compared to not having it - I assume permateak would also work well and be more "PC".
VHF: a fixed VHF has the advantage of higher power and higher aerial than a handheld. But it must be accessible when the companionway is closed. I use a remote microphone/controller in the cockpit - alternatively a VHF could be fitted in the cockpit - they do that on ribs. If you get one with AIS reception your chartplotter can show the detected vessels - very useful if you sail where there are commercial craft.
Chartplotter: I've tried tablet computers but my eyes can't see them well enough in sunshine. I use a Garmin echomap mounted on a bit of wood that slips into wooden holders - when I tack the boat I usually tack the chartplotter as well! At anchor it transfers to the cabin.
Cooking/heating: if you go for the flat camping stoves do choose one which has a cut-out device if the flame is not lit - the sort that you have to hold the knob for a few seconds when you light the stove. These are slightly more expensive - about £30 rather than £15 but make it much harder to fill the bilge with butane. The Brightspark BS100 is an example (whereas their BS110 is the cheaper, "outdoor only" type without the cutoff). These stoves give off CO. I would not recommend them for heating inside a boat unless ventilated to the outside through some method. I have a Pan2000 heater which sits on a butane stove with the exhaust gases going up a chimney - it works well but was expensive. A CO alarm is essential but get a digital one which integrates your exposure - it cuts down on false alarms which you might get just by boiling a kettle.
Ballast pump: I have an electric one which both fills and empties the ballast tank - it saves plunging your hand through a ballast tank full of cold water in winter!
Towing: make sure that the car is specified to cope with the possible gross train weight as well as the weight of the trailer+boat.
The equipment I chose for my BC20 is discussed in my "blog" http://seatern.uk/ where the first year or so (2014) has the most relevant bits.
Peter
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I'm fitting some (battery operated) bright LED's inside the sprayhood for a bit of light when coming back to the boat after a 'run ashore' at night.
The light requirements on my BR20 are fairly modest - I have two of the excellent rechargeable and waterproof LED tent lights shown in the photo below. They can be attached just about anywhere with their built-in magnets and hooks. There are various versions available on Amazon but be aware that some are shipped from China.
A USB socket for recharging mobiles, tablets, lights and other such electronics is really useful.
I note what you say about Lithium, I'll look into that, good idea
LiFePO4 batteries are still very expensive compared to Pb but are much smaller, lighter and longer-lived and more of their capacity is usable in each charging cycle. I wouldn't be without my (single) one - a waterproof Tracer 24Ah https://www.tracerpower.com/lifepo4-12v-24ah-battery-pack.html.
A mast head aerial will be required so get Matt to fit that too (with mast head nav lights, wind systems etc) as cables will need to be moused thro' the mast and terminals fitted to the coach roof.
So that the cables don't clack about inside the mast, make sure that cable ties with big tails are secured to the cable at regular intervals and different angles all the way down - this holds them away from the mast interior's surfaces.
Steering: I sail single handed and find an electronic Tiller Pilot almost vital for the purposes Graham mentions. I also have a rope based "tiller tamer" but it can't cope with changes in wind force and the changes in sail set up as you reef in the same way the Tiller Pilot does.
Like Peter, if I had a BC23 I would have both a tiller pilot and a tiller tamer. Beating upwind at sea with the tiller tamer locked on, my BR20 can sail for miles unattended, as long as I have the sails fairly well balanced and don't shift about inside the boat too much. A tiller pilot will do the same but will eat into battery life after a bit.
One more piece of kit that I don't think has been mentioned yet - on a boat as big as a BC23, a boarding ladder is fairly important.
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Dear All,
Thanks very much for the welcome and the tremendously useful information. Andy, thanks for the offer to come over to Grimsby. I may well take you up on that. Regards Rod
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Thanks everyone, really useful stuff. I've got the yard to fit centre cleats before I pick the boat up, I think that's the only extra that I'll need immediately that isn't already on. I liked that semi-fixed mooring springs setup that you have Andy - was that a snap shackle on lines set up on the pontoon?
I'm planning on putting the boat into the Tyne next week for a final few sails before the weather turns really cold, then I'll have the winter to sort out all the other bits and bobs. Including possibly flush mounting a chartplotter - bit scared of cutting massive holes in the boat though!
Cheers
Mark
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Mark..
Yes, my spring on the pontoon finger is very simple and basic, just a rope between the fore and aft cleats (on the finger) with a snap shackle half way. When coming alongside single handed it's very easy to just lean over and grab the rope from the cockpit to control the boat, then I snap it onto the steel thimble thingy on the shroud, where the lanyard is laced. The boat is then under full control fore and aft until you can secure your mooring lines - which I tend to leave on the finger ready.
Get mooring line snubbers .. cheap and very good in preventing wear. The snap shackle stays where it is for a very effective single line spring.
You're a braver man than me, cutting a hole for flush mounted instruments! (Presumably in the bulkhead?).
I always think they are so likely to go wrong and/or be changed etc and you end up with a hoiking great hole where you really least need it. And of course the new bit of kit doesn't fit the hole ...
I've just built a swing out panel for mine.. an earlier idea was the mount I built to slide into the washboard slot.. (did you see that on my boat?).
I'm loosely planning on a trip up in the next few weeks .. should you be about?
Regards
Andy
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Andy - you're right about the worry about dirty great holes in a fairly new boat, bit worrying. I had one of those swivel tv mounts on a previous campervan and it wouldn't stay in place without tightening it with a screwdriver every time I moved it, not ideal. Anyone know of a swivel mount suitable for a chartplotter with a good friction swivel that stays put?
And if you're coming up to the Tyne do get in touch first - went out yesterday and conditions were great, not sure how long they'll stay that way, but I'm planning on putting the boat in the water for a few weeks anyway.
Mark
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A note on the weight of a BC23, trailer and all.
I put the fully equipped Vagabond + Terence (the trailer) on a weighbridge at the end of the Round Britain experience. Total weight 1580 Kg.
A bit of a problem given that the axle was rated at 1400 Kg and the tyres at 700 Kg each!
Vagabond was (is?) BC23 number 10. Since then the trailer axle has been upgraded to 1800 Kg.
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Anyone know of a swivel mount suitable for a chartplotter with a good friction swivel that stays put?
I've sailed on a boat where the chart-plotter swung out into the companionway opening on a TV mount and one of the swivel hinge pins had been replaced with a bolt with a wing nut, allowing it to be tightened. That worked, but you couldn't see the chart-plotter if the companionway was closed up!
I like my system on Seatern where the chart plotter is on a plywood mount that slots into teak iPad holders bought from K.J.Howells of Poole thus allowing me to have alternative mounting positions - see photos. More info at http://seatern.uk/2014/06/garmin-echomap-50s/ .
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That ipad holder idea is really neat, I'd not really thought about not being able to use the chartplotter with the washboards in.
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Hi All
Newbie here! I am in the process of finalising my options for a new BC23 and have found this discussion really useful in confirming my thoughts.
Like Mark, my 23 will be based on the Tyne when it arrives in the North East in March 2018. Mark and I are already in touch and arranging a get together. He launches today (1 November), good luck to him and Juno (a.k.a Go Lightly)
I have, as recommended above, chosen the teak option and also the teak coming top (which I saw being fitted onto a 23 being built when I visited the yard last March....very nice!). Matt has recommended the teak be treated with Semco and has supplied me with samples to show its effectiveness. Does anyone else have experience of Semco in use?
As also mentioned, I too am keen to get some sort of cover to provide some protection and security for the cockpit in addition to the sprayhood. So it was either a "flat" mooring cover or getting a full enclosure made up. I was completly staggered at the quotes I obtained for a fitted enclosure (£3k plus, plus) ouch!
Salvation may have come though when I met the guys from Habitent (based in Stockton in the North East which was a good start) at this years Southampton Boat Show. £480. Any thoughts anyone?
David
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David.
Welcome to the wonderful world of Swallow Yachts and especially the Baycruiser 23 - not for nothing that Classic Boat magazine refers to her as a 'future classic'!
In reply to your query re a cover/cockpit tent for your lovely new BC23 - I too was (and still am) in this dilemma - I've kept my boat in numerous places now with varying degrees of security so I had a cockpit cover made up for just a few quid (20 ish I think it was). Picture attached.
Primarily to protect the engine from inquisitive eyes. This pic was taken at a location that was totally open to the general public at all times - hence my concern.
CJ marine do one (nice) for about £1650. Very expensive I agree. I'm tempted - but other things in the offing at the moment has prevented me from rushing in.
Very good choice to have teak - with, or without an oil treatment - but I regret I have no knowledge of 'semco'. I'm sure he won't mind me saying so, but I had a very enjoyable sail with Jonathan Stuart on his lovely BC26 a couple of months ago, he too has gone for the 'plain' teak option and it looks really good - and is likely to remain that way .. I wish that was an option when I ordered my BC23.
I too contacted Habitent. They do not do a purpose designed cockpit tent but they say one of their generic designs may fit ok, I was concerned that the BC23 does not have a pushpit, or even back stays to fix it to.. but they did send me a measurement sheet to see if they could work out how to fit it - I'm not convinced enough to order one as yet..
Hope to get up to the Tyne next year - It will be great sailing with you and Mark. I've (not so!) fond memories of Jarrow coal staithes where I did my dive training in the 80's.. Bit like Grimsby, only posher..!
Andy and Equinox
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That ipad holder idea is really neat, I'd not really thought about not being able to use the chartplotter with the washboards in.
Originally the holders were alternatively to be used to hold the remote throttle for my Torqeedo outboard which I've also mounted on a similar sized bit of ply. Pity the Torqeedo was not up to the job!
As shown in the photos, I used spirowrap to keep the cables together and give some protection. However an article in the latest Practical Boat Owner (December 2017, p.66) shows slit flexible trucking which I previously didn't know about. It comes in various sizes and looks to offer better protection than spirowrap. I've just ordered some (for a different application) and will see what it's like.
Peter
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Hi everyone - I too am a new Baycruiser 23 owner having moved up from a Shrimper mainly for increased accomodation, better sailing performance and ease of launching/ recovery. I bought Richard Bottom’s “Andante” - I think no 16. Living in Northumberland, I have had a month’s excellent sailing out of Amble getting to know what each piece of string does what! So I look forward to many trips with David and Mark in the new Swallow yachts northern fleet.
I have encountered the usual issues - mainsail battens snagging on lazyjacks when hoisting, almighty clunking from centreboard especially when crossing a big swell and difficulty in keeping head to wind when reefing. I know there has been much correspondence re centreboard clunking but has anyone actually had a problem with the Baycruiser and do I need to modify it.
I’m happily retired so boat will be going south for a month in April and then west coast of Scotland in June for as long as I can stand the midges.
Cheers. Nick
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Welcome Nick!!
My previous yacht was a Bavaria 32 and when I joined the Bavaria Owners Association, I found that I was the only one who had bothered to join in Northern England. All the chat was about the Solent and all the events were on the South Coast
So, one of the reasons for choosing the "UK's best trailer sailer" for my next yacht was that I could at least go off any join with others and not be such a "Billy-No-Mates" stuck in the North, so I am absolutely delighted to find out in less than a week of joing the Swallow Yachts Association that there will be at least four BayCruisers in the North (You, Mark, Andy and soon to be me with 23s) and who knows how many more!!
We will be holding our own Raid if we keep growing at this rate!
David
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UK's best trailer sailer™
:)
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Hi,
I know my boat is an expedition but, I've had an excellent cover made by Moat sails, photo below.
Steve Moat from Moat Sails has estimated a cockpit tent would cost about the same - £600 incl vat.
He uses crusader breathable fabric from the Crusader colour range - mines silver grey to match my spray hood. I'll be getting mine early next year in preparation for Mylor &etc.
Moat Sails Portland 01305824254.
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I was at Gwbert the other week and saw "Golightly" being given a spit and polish by the lads. It's quite interesting how things there are changing. Two BC23s were being built at the same time - this should make the build more efficient! There's book of photos and work instructions showing the guys how to put them together - so (hopefully) the same mistake is not made on both boats.
Two more are on order for build in January. One, RiffRaff, will be my replacement for Vagabond, with a few extra tweaks....Terence has been uprated in readiness and waits patiently in Gwbert.
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So, first report from sail number one in Juno (ex Golightly) on the Tyne. Discovered a few things, like the jib sheet cleats work much better if you have them both the right way round, and that the boat turns much better with the centreboard down. I couldn't understand why I was having such trouble manoevering into a marina pontoon until I realised I had forgotten to drop in when we launched, it's amazing she sailed as well as she did with it up. As a friend said the other day, there's nothing like sailing to teach you humility!
But all in all a good little first trip out, and when this force seven goes away I'll be out again.
One thing I could do with tips on - I was finding that the jib tended to wrap itself round the forestay at the top when unfurling. Any suggestions?
Looking forward to the northern fleet of BC23s getting together, although I'm not sure if Andy and Equinox qualify, being on the south side of the Humber and therefore soft southerners. But we could have you as a guest member I suppose.
Mark
One
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I've not had that one happen to me. On Vagabond the head of the sail was secured to the "point" of an L shaped "bracket". One end of the L was then secured to the halliard and the other to a shackle which slid up and down the forestay.
When the sail was raised, this bracket lifted the forestay away from the leading edge of the sail to prevent such wrapping.
I think that might not be fitted correctly.
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Oi! Can't let that one go without comment Mark.. soft southerner indeed!
My origins may be from the South West.. (hence I am legally allowed to fly the Kernow flag).. but fate (aka a woman!) bought me north and I've adapted well I think... even had my own whippet once.
I'd put the Humber up against the Tyne on a 'challenging' challenge any time! A photo of the sort of things I need to dodge attached... that monster was moving at about 20 knots..
Re your jib issues, like Rob I've never heard of that one, as he says, is it correctly fitted up there? Apart from my endless advice to get an aero luff system (!) - which does (did) have a 'spacer' to separate jib halyard and forestay. A simple plastic disc, which actually broke and I found I never needed it anyway, so I now don't bother. But I've found a similar description on the Barton website that is often used by dinghies I understand, that may resolve your issues.. again diagram attached.
http://www.bartonmarine.com/tech-info-jib-furling-fitting-instructions-sail-hanks.asp
Quote from the link..
Caution is needed when the sail is being furled as the sail head will rotate and may come into contact with the forestay if too close, to prevent this from happening a round thin Perspex (or any other Non corroding material) spacer disc can be inserted between the swivel and the shackle, this will prevent the two coming into contact.
Unquote.
Cheers .. Andy
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One, RiffRaff, will be my replacement for Vagabond, with a few extra tweaks....Terence has been uprated in readiness and waits patiently in Gwbert.
So I didn't persuade you to get a BC20, Rob! I wonder what the extra tweaks for RiffRaff will be?
Re. the jib furling, Seatern came with a spacer bar between the head of the jib and the forestay but I had more trouble with it than without - I think the friction actually made the two wrap together. I haven't used it since the first few trips. I just keep the forestay taught (although the jib is more taught) and all seems OK (...says he touching wood etc.).
For Andy: us soft southerners have things to dodge too!
Peter
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With your previous Peter, I think you have a streak of Viking in your blood..! - Didn't they land an army or two down there ..? That reminds me, I've not paid my Dane Geld this month..
More seriously though, I think you have hit on something re the forestay and very relevant to Mark's issue - I recall Matt mentioning something about the taughtness of the forestay and that (either he, or another owner) used a bungee to keep the forestay taught when the jib was tensioned. Like you my forestay is always taught, if not twang tight when not under tension, but if it did hang slack then it would snaffle up with the jib when being furled..?
Mark, you may want to look at the taughtness of your forestay.. and maybe use a bungee or shock cord to keep it tight when the pressure is taken up on the jib halyard..?
Regards
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My forestay hasn't got any slop in it, but the jib halyard is a lot tighter. There's a spacer fitted to the top swivel which is meant to keep the halyard and forestay apart. It's a new jib which because it's still stiff isn't wrapping tightly at the top when it's furled, maybe that bit is catching? I'm heading out today, I'll try keeping the jib under tension while I unfurl it and see if that keeps it inside the forestay.
Thanks for the ideas, all good...
M
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Two BC23s were being built at the same time - this should make the build more efficient! There's book of photos and work instructions showing the guys how to put them together - so (hopefully) the same mistake is not made on both boats
I guess one of them is my new BC23! How was it looking? We will be visiting next week to check on progress! We sold our Coaster Appuskidu a few weeks ago and will be probably keeping the new boat at Rutland Water and sailing there, the Orwell and the south coast. No name for her as yet!
Jonathan & Sabrina
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A comment on covers for boats kept outside with mast down.
The SY standard full cover supplied with my BRe covers the mast from top to bottom ie its full length. I really appreciate this when I feel how hot the black laminate gets when exposed to the sun when uncovered. There was comment on another thread about the advantage of painting masts for UV protection. I would recommend covering a horizontal spar wherever possible.
Rory C
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When I was at Gwbert (4 weeks ago) the hull and deck had not been joined together on either boat. I see from Facebook that one of them has been delivered to Holland (?) today.
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Two BC23s were being built at the same time - this should make the build more efficient! There's book of photos and work instructions showing the guys how to put them together - so (hopefully) the same mistake is not made on both boats
I guess one of them is my new BC23! How was it looking? We will be visiting next week to check on progress! We sold our Coaster Appuskidu a few weeks ago and will be probably keeping the new boat at Rutland Water and sailing there, the Orwell and the south coast. No name for her as yet!
Jonathan & Sabrina
Hi Jonathan
The other BC23 may well be mine!!
Take a couple of photos if you get a chance. I have chosen dark blue hull with copper coat.
David
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Hi David,
Will do, my camera is charged ready to go! Where are you based and when do you anticipate yours will be ready for collection?
I was originally aiming for March when I retire but now it looks like it will be ready a lot sooner! See what Matt has to say on Thursday.
All the Best ,
Jonathan
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After Rod's visit to my boat today I was minded to put up pictures of how I've installed my 'instrument panel'.
As I think I said before it consists of little more than a flat screen multi-way tv bracket bolted with wing nuts to a bracket screwed inside the bulkhead, next to the distribution panel so the 'panel' can swing around into the cockpit - it was a little unstable, so I fixed little legs onto it that supports it's weight and stabilises it.
The tv bracket (£6 off ebay) has fairly substantial bolts that are quite solid.
Hope this is maybe of use ..
Regards
Andy and Equinox
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Hi David,
Will do, my camera is charged ready to go! Where are you based and when do you anticipate yours will be ready for collection?
I was originally aiming for March when I retire but now it looks like it will be ready a lot sooner! See what Matt has to say on Thursday.
All the Best ,
Jonathan
Thanks Jonathan,
Like you, I was originally aiming for March 2018, but agreed for the work to be done now and for the yacht to be stored until the Spring thus keeping the yard busy through the winter months.
I am based in Newcastle upon Tyne (if you scroll back through this thread, you will see some North v South "banter") and unfortunately, due to work commitments I am not able to travel down to see any part of the build. Very frustrating.....
So any and every picture would be treasured, thank you.
(I would only put a small selection on the forum, and you could email me any others direct. I think if you click my name you should see my email address)
Best wishes
David
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Another thing that occurred to me yesterday when 'ambling' about in hardly any wind but a beautiful crisp autumn day, was that I hadn't thought to mention another small, but useful mod I have fitted on my BC23 - a cunningham on the main.
There is a small cringle in the main luff just a few inches above the gooseneck, which is not easily seen if you have a sail bag fitted, where I fitted a small block in the same way as the main reefing blocks are fitted.
I put a line secured from the kicker block fitting (on the tabernacle) up through this block and back down through another block on the tabernacle and back through the coach roof tidies back to a coachroof cleat to lock it off.
It gives a really useful and easy sail adjustment by really tensioning up the main and being able to adjust the draft/flatten off according to windstrength.
Luff tension can't really be adjusted by using the main halyard as the head is tight up against the masthead block and a cunningham gives far better control anyway.
Hope this is useful to the new BC23 owners.
Andy and Equinox
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Talking of bits of string, I think I'm going to tweak the reefing arrangements on Juno (now renamed after party/ceremony which involved lots of appeasing the gods of sea and wind with copious libations).
Matt had her set up with the first reef as double line and the second single line, mainly to demonstrate the difference to potential customers. Now there's a sprayhood it's not so easy to reach forward to pull the luff down, so I'm going to try single line reefing on both. It'll involve eye-splicing 12-strand polyester which could be fun, or I might cop out and get my local shop to do it.
Then there's bringing all the lines back to the cockpit - the organisers seem to be full already, but I guess I could swap around spinnaker halyard and the second reef - can't really think of circumstances when I would need both at the same time...
Plus I have a question about tiller pilots, but maybe this thread is getting a bit long?
Mark
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Mark. I'd really urge you against single line reefing.. I had it at first and it just didn't work for me, the lines are too long with too many blocks and too much friction. Was a total nightmare!
Do you recall how I have mine?
It's a very simple and very efficient system. The luff line goes up from the boom gooseneck where it's tied off, through the block in the luff and back down via a block on the tabernacle, back through the 'organisers' and into the cockpit via a clutch or cleat.
The leach line is fixed at one end on the boom, up to the leach cringle, back down through a metal ring (which forms part of the boom fitting and is actually part of the original set up - I expect yours is the same) then locks off on a jammer cleat on the side of the boom.
Each reef - first and second, is exactly the same principle with the luff lines either side of the cockpit so even I don't get confused - even if I do use the same coloured line! The leach lines lay one above the other along the boom with the clew outhall.
To reef, I take up the topping lift, furl in the jib - which minimises the bow blowing off, I find that the fully battened main still has power despite being scandalised by dropping the main halyard, she still wants to keep sailing, so is essential to keep head up into the wind. (Purists don't read this bit), don't be shy to use the engine in a sea or strong wind to hold her head on, makes life so much easier!
Lower the main halyard, pull down the luff block to the boom and lock it off on a clutch or cleat, pull down the leach and lock it off on the boom, hoist and tension the main. Unfurl the jib and off you go.
No need to go forward and is a very simple and easy operation.
The deck organisers can be stacked one on top of t'other, I have two on each side to give more capacity.
If you want more info, please email me or give me a ring .. or maybe we need to chat about all this over a newky broon..!
I'll do a post on how my tiller pilot is set up - It's truly brilliant even if I do say myself!
I'll get some pics this week as I'm out sailing.. (my design is copyrighted and the cost to use it is an all expenses paid trip to Whitley Bay!).
Regards
Andy and Equinox
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Andy - I'd forgotten the details of yours, that sounds like a sensible solution. I'll try converting the existing double line first reef and bring the luff line back to the cockpit and see how I get on.
I didn't know double decker organisers existed, that could be a good plan. Then I'll be looking for things to fill them up with. Flag halyard perhaps? Semi-automatic day shapes raiser? Endless possibilities.
M
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Mark.
My organisers are just two individual ones bolted/screwed to the coach roof one on top of the other.
I was already full up from the start with two halyards, two reefs, topping lift, centreboard up haul, lazy jacks, cunningham, kicker, a spare 'just in case' halyard for the asymmetric I never fitted, a hoist to lift a fake sun over the yard arm.. the list goes on.. you'll easy fill 'em and it's one of the things I forgot to mention to those asking about 'things to have' on their new boats.
I'm also toying with an idea I've had for pulling the mainsail head down into the sail bag when lowering the main so you don't have to go forward to handle it at all, the second reefing block works really well to do this but only so far.
I noticed that in the persistent strong winds I always end up in, even when lowered the head of the main lifts and blows out of the top of the bag. I thought of perhaps a thin line from the mainsail head down to the tabernacle and back through the organisers (another hole filled!) to the cockpit would pull it down tight then lock it off until you get back to the safety of your pontoon or wherever, when you can zip it all up... something like that, but I'll have to think it through so it doesn't snaffle anything else up..
I'll get a pic next time I'm up..
Cheers
Andy
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Re Tiller Pilots and Single line reefing.
Vagabond was fitted with both.
The tiller pilot was a Davis Tiller Tamer ;
https://marinestore.co.uk/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=cu83205&Category_Code=tiller_locks&Store_Code=mrst&gclid=Cj0KCQiAgNrQBRC0ARIsAE-m-1yHd_Av57-zNVa7uUivN1D4KkiGnmbvBkU4vb5Bs12-03vDYp6hMwMaAuCbEALw_wcB
A line with a 6 inch double loop of quarter inch bungy was fixed to a D ring on one side of the cockpit (about level with the outboard) across to the middle of the boat, threaded through the tiller tamer and across to a mirror image D ring on the other side of the boat where it was fastened with another double loop of bungy. I used karibiners (I had two lying around) to give me the ability to release the thing quickly if needed. The friction through the tiller tamer could be controlled by means of the know on top of it. I usually had it such that it would hold still undernormal circumstances but a good yank would jerk it across a bit. The bungees gave you some ability to steer in harbour and took some of the knocks out when in a following sea. Under calmish conditions it would hold course for several minutes - enough to have a pee and even (in one calm day) put the kettle on!
The single line reefing I found fine. OK it had yards of string that fell down around you and quite a bit of friction - but, provided you anticipated the friction and pulled the string loose, it was very effective. The routine was _ work out which bit of string to use (like Andy mine were both the same colour and not labelled - topping lift on - head to wind (I never found I had to fiddle with the jib), main halliard down, pull in the strings. Then halliard and topping lift. My reefing lines ran outside the boom bag, so could be assisted by grabbing them and pulling them too.
Interesting that Andy has a Cunningham fitted. I overcame that problem by getting Matt to make the mast longer - he tells me they all are now, but I'm not convinced.
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Update on string...
I've gone for a temporary halfway house, leaving the second reef as single line, but putting a longer luff pennant on the first reef so that it can be led back to the cockpit.
I can't find a supplier for that nice buff coloured 12 strand 6mm prestretched polyester that the yard use - it could be Marlow but they don't seem to do buff colour.
M
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I can't find a supplier for that nice buff coloured 12 strand 6mm prestretched polyester that the yard use - it could be Marlow but they don't seem to do buff colour.
Try this lot https://shop.classicmarine.co.uk/rope/synthetic-rope.html
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'Double decker' BC23 coach roof organiser ...
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Nothing really about BC23's at all! Really just to share this pic with you all...
An atmospheric picture of the Grimsby dock hydraulic tower taken yesterday from out in the Humber Estuary. I can't even say I was sailing my BC23, as the wind was touching sixes (yet again! Is this the windiest year on record?) we took out my friends Nicholson 31!
Felt so good to have 7 tons of lead under my rather ample backside..
Not only an excellent landmark/navigation aid to both ships and air, this tower is hugely interesting if anyone is interested in industrial architecture ..
http://www.engineering-timelines.com/scripts/engineeringItem.asp?id=79
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Amazing transformation
from this
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To this.....
Just the rigging to go now
Exciting times
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Looking really good - I'll be interested to see how that teak cockpit coaming works. Not long to wait now. Hope you didn't drive to Wales to take that pic?
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Yes - Looks gorgeous ..
But just you wait until that lovely coppercoat goes green and manky! Seems to work though after three and a half years, only have to give the underside a power wash off each year.
I've left my BC23 in the water this winter and so far there doesn't appear to be any ill effects.
David? Do I see you have coppercoated your rudder?
Andy and Equinox
PS - Off topic I know, but what would the cruising collective think of a gathering of BC23's somewhere this summer, or sometime? I'm not sure what the collective noun for a group of BC23's is? A disaster of Baycruisers perhaps?!
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Mark
No, all pictures were taken by Lara, the collection trip to Wales should be on 21 March. Lara has (so far) sent through 21 fantastic pictures capturing the build process.
Andy
Yes, I had the rudder specially copper coated as she will be berthed in a marina where they charge by overall length. Interestingly the engine well is also copper coated so hopefully the green will stay away.
Off topic
I'm not sure about calling us a "disaster" of BC23s, would maybe prefer a "pod".
The Northern Fleet (well three of us anyway) are having a get together in 10 days time for a pre-season scoop and chat about the year ahead. Watch this space (or maybe another thread) for any suggestions.
David & Lady G
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Sounds interesting David.. If Grimsby can count as 'northern' then perhaps I can qualify to join a northern fleet - providing the induction ceremony is not too onerous..?!
Where will Lady G be moored?
I'd be very interested in joining in any events we can get together somewhere? - or even trying out each other's sailing area's - something like that?
I too am in a marina and keep my rudder in an upright position to prevent any growth on it - either way, rudder up or down, she'll be the same length?
I've had no growth in the outboard well, tho' I do find that I get muddy deposits accumulating which is easily flushed out when either moving or just running the engine.
You'll find the coppercoat does turn a pretty ghastly shade of green (it's meant to) when it's been in contact with sea water.
Andy and Equinox
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Of course Andy, the Northern Fleet is open and welcoming!! I posted way back on 3 November (on this thread) that we were already 4 strong (Mark,Nick,You and I). Mark is based at Royal Quays on the River Tyne and I will be joining him in a couple of weeks. Nick is based in Amble, so quite close. We will definitely plan for us all to be getting together soon.
I fear that our marina "rate measurer" may well consider a BC23 LOA to be somewhat longer than 6.98m (when the rudder is up) to maximise their income. As I also would worry about protecting it from damage from passing berth holders. Getting it anti-founded and keeping it down, seems the best thing to do.
David & Lady G
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Definitely 'up for that' - to use the modern parlance!
Co-incidentally, I visited Royal Quays just a few weeks ago to see a rather nice Island Packet 29 that's for sale in the marina. Heck of a boat, but I'm not entirely convinced she is for me (I'm searching for a bigger heavier boat for more extended cruising in the near future).
I hear there is another BC23 in Scarbrough as well?
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Re Copper Coat: a few posts ago Andy reported on the longevity of This anti foul method. I suspect the "northern pod" swim in an area where fouling is more prevalent. Certainly Vagabond acquied more weed and "shell fish" on her hull during the leg up the North Sea than she did in the two other legs. Perhaps there more nitrogen in the water (from the outfall of the large European rivers) than there is in the other parts of the seas around Britain?