Swallow Yachts Association
Swallow Yachts Forum => Home Builders' Area => Topic started by: Simon Holden on 19 Sep 2012, 21:41
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Coming to the end of a long but very enjoyable build of my S17, my mind starts to turn to the practicalities of actually using my new 'trailer-sailor'.
I seems to me (apart from the lack of water ballast) that one of the main disadvantages of the 'old' Storm design is the lack of a deck-level tabernacle making rigging/de-rigging a more laborious task than maybe it need be.
Having had a few rigging 'dry-runs', I also seem to remove a fair amount of lovingly applied varnish and chunks of Douglas Fir every time I erect the mast by inserting it through the hole in the Kingplank!
Given that their designs are not a million miles apart around the foredeck area, does anyone have any experience/thoughts as to whether it might be possible to incorporate the BR17 tabernacle arrangement on a S17?
If anyone has any BR17 instructions relating to the construction of the mast/tabernacle area I'd be really appreciative of a look.
Also any photos you BR17 home-builders have of the tabernacle/mast area under construction would be really interesting to see as I think I might go 'off-piste' and give it a go!
Thanks
Simon
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Hello Simon
I have the same problem with our Storm 15 and being a little "short" does not help.
Standing on a small pair of steps or tool box does the trick.
Have you thought of a "gated" cut out instead of the hole as used on the "Fireball" and other racing dinghies?
Terry Cross "IONA"
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Quote
"Have you thought of a "gated" cut out instead of the hole as used on the "Fireball" and other racing dinghies?"
Ignore this suggestion. I did not realise the hole in the kingplank was so far foreward from the cockpit coaming
Terry IONA
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Thanks for the suggestion Terry
As you say the mast 'hole' is quite a long way infront of the coaming and I think cutting a slot would weaken things a bit too much.
Presumably on a 'tabernacled' boat the tabernacle is attached to the top of the lower section of the mast and the kingplank with the mast foot permanently attached to the keel?
Any photos of this area of a BR 17 would be much appreciated!
Simon
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I'm not familiar with the Storm 17 but I wondered if thought has been given to replacing the wooden mast with a carbon fibre one? This would still have to be lifted in and out of the hole, but the weight reduction would make this far easier. Possibly it could stand unstayed as I think the mast is on the Storm 15. That would simplify rigging. I know it would cost more, but you might save that on the hardware and modifications needed for a tabernacle.
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Have a look at my BR17 build threads. There are some pictures which show the supporting structure - on the BR17 it is a bridge bulkhead, with a large cutout underneath. I think there's also a kingplank but that won't be fitted until she's the right way up again.
What you lose by this arrangement is the Storms' ability to put locker fronts above the seats under the foredeck, because it's needed for structural strength.
My guess is with a Storm17 that you would want to put a pillar under the deck up to the tabernacle fitting, to restore any lost strength. I guess you could just cut the mast appropriately and pop in some extra squares to seal the ends.
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Thanks for the helpful comments.
The internal structure under the foredeck seems strong with the lockers adding some structural rigidity which should resist lateral forces. The aft end of the kingplank is unsupported though.
I was thinking (as you suggest Anthony) of cutting the mast at deck level, where it passes through the kingplank and epoxying the bottom piece in place having blanked off the cut end with an offcut. The tabernacle would then be bolted on top of this at deck level.
This would in turn provide strength to resist vertical forces.
Maybe I should give Matt a call before breaking out the saw!
Simon
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There is no need to cut a hole. A standard tabernacle has a bolt through the foot of the mast so the mast is pivoted and can be raised by the forestay.
Terry Cross "IONA"
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Sorry! I misread your intentions.
I will engage my brain before I post again.
Terry
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THIS IS MY THIRD ATTEMPT TO REPLY!
Take deck off, build deck beams beefed up under mast, fit hatch fore access to fore peak, replace ply with ply and decking.
Steve Jones
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Further to the above, the boat shown is my BR17, I modified the forward bulkhead by cutting a larger access area, doubling up the bulkhead, and fitting deck beams either side, to take the thrust of the mast, a bit overkill perhaps, but best done at construction stage than later.
Steve Jones
BR17 Nona ME
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Thanks Steve, that's really helpful.
Congratulations on Nona ME she looks beautiful.
Unfortunately I've essentially finished my S17 as per my photos so ripping off the foredeck is not an attractive proposition!
I think that the bracing you describe may not be necessary in any case as I would plan to permantly fix the lower end of the mast between the underside if the kingplank/tabernacle and the keel thereby providing adequate vertical support - the mast on a S17 usually passes through the square hole in the kingplank all the way down to the mastfoot attached to the keel. The arrangement I am planning would therefore be identical to a standard S17 only the mast would be in 2 pieces with the upper part hinging on the tabernacle, the lower part permanently epoxied in the boat under the foredeck.
Simon
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Simon,
Further to further!, I tried in my first posting to give a better description of the modification that I intended to make on the S17 that I had built , which involved all of the above plus a foredeck hatch to give access to the forepeak. The posting must have been too long or there were too many drawings- so I gave up , hence the somewhat terse reply sorry.
All the best with whatever you decide, but I found that access to the forepeak on the S17 needed addressing.
Regards
Steve
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Simon,
I have a Storm 17 which I bought ready made from Matt. I opted for a tabernacled carbon fibre mast right from the beginning. I'll include a photo of the set up on my boat (its a bit dark, I know). The vertical supporting doesn't make access to the forepeak any more difficult than it would be anyway, given the size of the boat and the centerboard case which is kind of in the way.
I have sailed my S17 happily over the last three years, with lots of trailering, launching and retrieving. Always been very happy with the tabernacle.
Best
Christian
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I like the carbon mast and tabernacle, looks like a good option and something to do over winter. Is the yard carbon as well? I feel a conversation with Matt coming on!
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Nope, as, different to the original layout I opted for a Bermudan Rig. You can actually see a picture of my boat on the Swalloboat.com site under the S17 section.
Best
Christian
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Thanks Christian - I always thought it was a good idea but never realised that Matt offered it as a factory option!. As a matter of interest what year is your boat?
I guess the tabernacle is the same as that used on the BR 17 so should be readily available from the yard. As you say, I think forepeak access is poor with or without the lower end of the mast present so I'm not planning on cutting any big holes in my nice new shiny deck!
How do you support the mast when trailering? is there a yolk at the aft end to cradle it as per the BR or have you sorted out a different arrangement?
Simon
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Simon,
I actually take the mast of the tabernacle when trailering and put it on a support on the trailer. But then again, I don't have a Gunter Rig with a short mast, but a Bermudan Rig with a long mast.
Best
Christian
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I've been in contact with Matt and he can do a complete Gunter rig in carbon. He does think there would be much saving in weight so a shorter main on to a tabernacle is probably the way to go. I've asked if he can supply a suitable tabernacle. When he gets back I'll let you know