Swallow Yachts Association
Swallow Yachts Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: Mrs Chippy on 21 Oct 2012, 02:51
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Is there any interest in developing a burgee or pennant for the Swallow Boats Association or are folks generally more wedded to club pennants or are members more indvidualist types who want to fly their own flags?
I would be keen to hear other members thoughts on the issue .......
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I would be keen to hear other members thoughts on the issue .......
: No, thanks. C.
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Mrs Chippy (Great name)
Nice to see new members taking part in the forum, i would be proud to fly a Swallow Boats association pennant on my boat.
Can't see any harm in that, any ideas on design so far.
A competition perhaps to design the pennant open to young relatives with a prize for the winner.
Lovely idea
Peter Cockerton
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There's some ready-made artwork in the photo attached to this post http://www.swallowyachtsassociation.org/smf/index.php/topic,624.msg3807.html#msg3807
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I am asking because I am keen to install a pigstick (or pennant staff) on our new BR17 - which means a decision about what flag to fly.
If there is no real appetite that's fine - I can choose my own design.
If there is an appetite I guess a competition would be the way to go.
We are currently members of the Catboat Association which has a single burgee for the multitude of catboat owning members. This identifies us around the world as association members (not that there are many in New Zealand!)
See catboat assn burgee below - it represents the white gaff rigged sail of a catboat against the blue sky.
More importantly I find the pigstick an easy, nice looking and invaluable way of knowing what the wind is up to. It just runs up the mast on a flag halyard in an endless loop running through a sheave at the top of the mast. The flag is on a swivel system that alllows it to go 360 degrees around the staff.
I was thinking of one on the mizzen mast of the Bayraider.
Cheers
Mrs Chippy
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I have not got anything useful to add to the discussion just that I approve of the idea and would certainly fly a Swallow boats burgee (assuming the design was OK) to add some colour to my BR20 and not least (as Mrs Chippy has mentioned) to provide additional info on wind direction/strength.
Colin
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If you want a logo for a pennant, there is an "official" swallowboats sail mark now, certainly it was put on my sail, of not surprisingly, a swallow. Not a great shape for a small triangular flag though
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Agree about the design not being great on a small triangular flag. Maybe I will just choose a design/colour that works for us.
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How about the attached rough artist's impression?
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Haven't I seen that pennant before somewhere?!
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I propose having 20 burgees made, more or less to the attached design. I've chosen this colour because it matches the colour of the swallow's belly and shows the swallow design up better than bright red, say.
The best quote is for single sided printed knitted polyester, roped and toggled, 35cm long, £8.50 each including VAT. Double sided would be £13.75 each.
Any strong preferences one way or the other?
If I press the button, we'll have to work out a way of getting the money in to me and the postage out. Easy for the UK, less so for overseas.
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I propose having 20 burgees made, more or less to the attached design. I've chosen this colour because it matches the colour of the swallow's belly and shows the swallow design up better than bright red, say.
The best quote is for single sided printed knitted polyester, roped and toggled, 35cm long, £8.50 each including VAT. Double sided would be £13.75 each.
Any strong preferences one way or the other?
If I press the button, we'll have to work out a way of getting the money in to me and the postage out. Easy for the UK, less so for overseas.
Put me down for one Graham, single or double whatever you order
Peter Cockerton
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I'd like one please Graham but would prefer to invest in double sided - after all for quite some time it'll be the only bit of the boat I'll have! However I'll go with single sided if that proves to be the general preference. (I'm in the UK - Southampton - so can send cheque)
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Hi, Graham.
Please.
Not beige!
Surely ANYTHING but beige!!
PS Is that swallow design out of copyright?
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Tony,
Beige has connotations. I prefer to call this one, which is warmer, off white. It is supposed to match http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Barn_Swallow_800.jpg
I got the artwork off Charlotte at SB.
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HI Graham
Please put me down for one double sided burgee, I will provide you with a UK address and I will figure out how to pay you from WEst Australia.
James Bennett
Western Australia
BR20 GRP Kailani
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All:
A Swallowboat is always recognizable as a Swallowboat, no need to mark or distinguish it additionally through a Swallowboats pennant.
An Association pennant, to mark resp. distinguish "Members" from "Non-Members", I find that is a conventional and exclusive club paraphernalium, and I myself do not want to be part of such a formal environment.
I re-joined this forum and "Association" -reluctantly- only under the rules laid out on the About page and the assertion therein it would exist solely "in cyberspace". I see the advent and use of an Association pennant as contrary to that ethos, a relapse and first step into the old dreaded club attitude, and have decided to leave.
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This reply is “off topic” in as much as it is prompted by a post from “Llafurio” which has mysteriously disappeared ( along with the huge loss of all his other contributions to date, being replaced by the phrase “User declined moving his post to this website.”) He has “resigned” from the Forum because (and I have to paraphrase here ) the adoption of a Swallow Boats pennant by the SBA might represented the first steps towards an unwanted drift into a formal Club structure, contrary to its stated aims.
Hi, Llafurio.
I agree entirely with your sentiments but not with your response.
While recognising that you are not a public service provider and can do whatever you like, to leave the forum, depriving us all (especially those who have just bought a new boat “off the peg” ) of your knowledge and experience of small boats in general and Swallow Boats in particular, simply because a few people want to run around with a beige (Sorry. Off-white...) pennant at the masthead seems a little, er.... disproportionate, precipitate - and very unfortunate for prospective Swallow Boat owners.
What is more, the VERY THING you and I.. and many others - including Graham, if I’m any kind of judge - wish to prevent, (i.e. a take-over by committee types wishing to mould the world after their own pompous image) is made more likely by the absence of those with something practical to contribute about rigging and sailing the boats.
To be blunt, no one needs to read my inconsequential prattling ( or worry about what colour the club pennant should be ) when they are having trouble with their roller furling! A little flag isn’t going to help them – nor does it hinder anything. It is a pleasant little conceit but for all practical purposes, totally irrelevant!
If enough people actually WANT to form a social club to organise their own Raids and so on, perhaps they would like to start a BayRaider Class Association with its own website, constitution, brass buttoned committee members, dress codes and personalised coffee mugs (They would have to design their own pennant, of course, as not all Swallow boats are BayRaiders!) and leave the rest of us to get on with what WE want to do.
Like you, I feel strongly that THIS Forum should stay true to its original aims stated in the “About” tab, above, and keep its individual character, which owes everything to the informative, practical and interesting contributions from the majority of its users and nothing whatever to the “Professional committee members” it refers to and whose ministrations we have (so far) been spared.
Marx ...Groucho not Karl .... said:
“ I don’t care to belong to any club that will have me as a member".
Clever, amusing, true on many levels but the SBA is a Forum, not a Club. Let’s keep it that way.
.....and another thing!
(This addressed to the site Administrator, Jonathan Stuart , or possibly the site Moderator, Clem Freeman)
What’s with this elitist Saddometer thingy – the yellow dots under our names? Um. Red dots in your case, Jonathan, I notice. (..tugging at a respectful forelock).
It appears that I am a “Hero Member”. Not a “Full Member” nor yet a “Senior Member” but a “HERO Member” !
I’ve not been called anything like that since I was chucked off the Politburo for having Revisionist leanings.
I call it a “Saddometer” because the embarrassing fact of having made over 300 posts on this site is indisputable evidence that I have nothing better to do with my time. That’s a Saddo, alright!
What is more worrying is that it might lead gullible types to think that some of these posts might be worth reading - or that my opinion is of more value than that of a mere Junior Member. Five minutes spent scrolling down the lists would soon disabuse them of that notion - but “Hero Member”? Forsooth! Do away with it!
....and finally.
To show solidarity with the sentiments (if not the response) that “Llafurio” expressed (and we are now prevented from reading), please refer to the jpeg, below, which I think SHOULD be the Swallow Boat Owners preferred pennant, if we are determined to have one. (Image stolen from the RN Code Book, 1932)
It embodies the true spirit (pun absolutely intended) of comradeship between small boat users, whatever the boat they happen to sail.
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I very strongly agree with Tony's first point and all its sub-points. I have found the forum to be practical, informative, supportive and, at times, good fun. Let's keep it that way, eschewing brass buttons and burgees. (I write, by the way, as an inveterate non-joiner of 'things'.) If there were any purpose in listing those whose contributions have been most valuable to the forum over the years, Claus's name would be at the top of the list. I also agree with Tony, however, that you have probably over-reacted, Claus. Please re-consider. Having made your point, would you please re-join us, and continue to give us the considerable benefit of your wisdom and practical experience.
On Tony's second point, I must say I hadn't noticed the emergence of 'hero' status, nor that I'm not one - yet? What's the threshold - 200 posts? Once I've got there, I shall join Tony in pooh-poohing it roundly.
On the third point, I don't want to start an argument, but it has to be a foaming pint.
Michael
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Tony & all,
The Saddometer (good name and entirely appropriate) has always been on the forum, even when it was hosted on the Swallow Boats site! We can (probably) get rid of it altogether or we can definitely change the descriptions and/or the number of posts required to gain a status.
Jonathan
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Hi, Michael.
Claus has certainly reacted - and in a way which we (on this forum) will all regret - but I wouldn’t like to have implied that he has OVER reacted.
After all, why on Earth should he get involved in a protracted disputation about the way the SBA evolves if he doesn’t feel like it? Life’s too short! Good for him for having principles and sticking to them. (I just wish he was LESS principled so I could pick his brains at the click of a mouse on a regular basis. Selfish ain’t I. )
That said, IS flying a burgee necessarily evidence of a regrettable personality trait? We all wack ‘em up there when we’re on a Raid, don’t we? I even wear the Dog Tags provided by the Management when at the Morbihan - only to get in the queue for the free food and wine, it’s true, but the principles of independence and unclubability (the spell checker didn’t like THAT one!) have still been thrown out of the window. Come to think of it, there aren’t many principles I wouldn’t sacrifice for Oysters and a glass or two of Chablis. I can always pick ‘em up, dust ‘em off and start all over again when the bottle’s empty. I always preferred Falstaff to Prince Hal / Henry V anyway.
As to your third point.
I don't think the officers of His Majesty's Royal Navy (c. 1930) actually drank beer, old chap. Certainly not on formal wardroom occasions....but to keep you happy (and because my Grandad was a stoker) I've re-designed the official Unofficial Swallow Boats pennant, henceforth to be termed the USB pennant as seen below. Cheers!
Hi, Jonathan.
Thanks for your observations on the Saddometer. Perhaps if you change the comments to a progressive scale of wounding and insulting remarks you would have less of your time wasted by people like me.
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Crikey - I seem to have blundered into a hornets' nest here. I don't think I am especially pompous or prone to committees. Just an naive enquiry from a new member who isn't au fait with this association's principles. I shall go away and study them intently. Apologies to anyone I have offended with my question. Mrs Chippy :)
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Mrs Chippy
Please don't feel bad about this, unless you had fully read, understood and could recall the contents of the Association "About Section" how could you have known that the innocuos suggestion of an association burgee or pennant could have resulted in such a furore.
Perhaps when new members sign up to the forum they must tick a box to show they have read and agree to the terms before being allowed in. Not sure how the "About Words" were formulated, i don't recall as a member of the original forum being asked to contribute or ratify them, but i guess they were constructed to appease some members.
Next we will have the forum being used for commercial gain by being allowed to advertise properties and boats for hire (oop's another posting that's disappeared).
I purchased a Swallow Boat to sail and get away from the sort of hastle i have recently read on this forum, the very thought of all aspects of structured clubs and pompous positions would send me running for cover however this is a far cry from a symbol showing that you are a member of a association of Swallow Boat Owners and proud to be so.
Please continue to contribute to our "Our" association.
Peter Cockerton
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Well said, Peter. I think Sayre’s law is in operation here. It’s just a piece of cloth to signify immense pride in ownership, that’s all.
Anyway, in my continuing quest for world domination [strokes malevolent-looking white cat], I’ll proceed with a double-sided burgee with swallow motif in, er, off-white. It should be ready in two to three weeks. It will make an ideal stocking filler but I suggest that you take your leg out first.
Cost for the UK will be £13.75 plus £2.20 unregistered post & packing - £15.95 in all. Overseas post will undoubtedly be more. To order, contact me through this forum by pm (preferred) or send an email to graham wickenden at btopenworld com, with dots in all the obvious places (not so reliable). I’ll then let you know how to settle up.
Thank goodness no-one knows about the secret SBA handshake. And as for my ties with the Illuminati……
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I wrote the About page and this wasn't reviewed or approved by anyone else but hopefully captures what was agreed in a very long running topic before the forum moved to this site. I am sure it can be improved and I welcome any suggestions, but I didn't want to over-do discussing this otherwise it could become too much like debating a constitution....!
While a burgee is a common feature of most clubs, that does not mean having a burgee is a step towards being a club. That is "false cause" and a burgee is not inseparable from being a club. Furthermore, it is quite clear from everyone's reactions that no-one here is interested in introducing committees, etc. There is a danger that the only whiff here of anything resembling the dark side of clubs is the discussion we are now having. Ironic really!
The Sadometer groups and the number of posts required to join that group are as follows:
Newbie 0
Jr. Member 1
Full Member 5
Sr. Member 100
Hero Member 200
Given most members are too old, cynical and British to be flattered by being called "Hero", the following groups may be more appropriate ;) :
Harmless
Malcontent
Bellyacher
Old git
Curmudgeon
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I prefer 'mostly harmless' for the first category.
I don't like 'hero' - it sounds like I'm wearing my underpants over a pair of tights.
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Re #24
Don’t kid yourself, Graham. We all know about the secret handshake. (It’s the one with the signed cheque in it made out to Swallow Boats, without which NO ONE is allowed to be a Swallow Boater!!)
BTW Er.....don’t you think that as Hero Members you and I should have a little Scrambled Egg on our pennants? Nothing overt, you understand. Perhaps a little gold ball for each year of Hero-ship? (Then, in my dotage, people would look at my pennant and reach the obvious conclusion....)
Seriously (no, really!) it will be interesting to see how quickly your first batch is sold out. Does anyone (apart from the Inland Revenue) know how many BayRaiders have been built? They pop up all over the place these days. Well, they are arguably the best day boat on the market – all down to Matt’s philosophy of never building a boat that is needlessly ugly or needlessly slow.
Re # 22
Poor Mrs Chippy !
Don’t lose any sleep over it. You have offended no one.
As for studying the rules intently.............!
The first rule of Fight Club (Oops! Try again!) The first rule of the SBA is that you talk about everything! There are no rules as such - just a bunch of sweet-natured guys havin’ fun!
(Now, where have I heard that last bit before?)
In my view Jonathan Stuart did a good job of setting the whole thing up. Apart from the technical side of things (not inconsiderable, by all accounts) he did it without treading on the delicate bunions of us old codgers, exhibiting skills normally only found amongst the herders of cats. We shall all fly our pennants at half mast if he ever gets fed up and stamps off in a huff.
Re # 25
Jonathan. Ignore that which is immediately above. I was talking about someone else. (Ahem)
Love the suggested Saddometer categories. (It’s just like being at home, innit.)
I will now go and listen to my favourite LP :-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2B4bsqYxwo0
Note for the chronologically under developed :- “LP” or “Long Player” refers to a primitive audio replay device popular in the last century, consisting of a flat disc of Bakelite (later replaced by Vinyl) on which a spiral track of analogue information was moulded. (See the museum ap. )
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The double-sided SBA burgees have arrived. Those that have already paid will receive theirs in the post shortly.
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One left!
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Burgee Proudly flying over Californian waters ;D
David.
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Sold out.
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Thanks Commodore. Let's hope the world doesn't come crashing down around us now all these pennants are being flown. Blazer badge next? ;D
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….and cap badge?
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I think that this uniform might be suitable.
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Burgee proudly flying over the Pacific!
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mY_9Jj8_l5g&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DmY_9Jj8_l5g
David
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That's three out of the world's five oceans. Realistically, we're unlikely to see it flying (on a boat) over the Arctic or Southern Oceans. Anyone considering a trip to Svalbard or Antarctica?