Swallow Yachts Association
Swallow Yachts Forum => Technical => Topic started by: Jonathan Stuart on 19 Jul 2015, 22:33
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I know I'm not alone in having had problems recovering the boat straight on a CLH trailer. Each summer over the past 3 years I've spent time staring at the trailer trying to understand why the boat never goes on straight. I've measured and adjusted various parts of the trailer, but to no avail. When viewed from behind the trailer, the boat always ends up too far to the right, even though for the first half of the recovery the boat looks to be centred.
This weekend I was thinking about this again and, without the boat on the trailer, noticed the rear rollers didn't quite point straight down the centreline of the trailer. I measured their heights and distance from the centre, etc, and everything looked fine. But the more I looked the more I felt that the "aim" of the pair of rear rollers wasn't straight down the centre of the trailer but was a few degrees to the right. Each end of the swinging cradle was bolted to the Trailer's A-frame's arms at the same point (7cm from their ends) but the rollers' aim seemed to be slightly off.
So before recovering the boat today, I loosened the clamp that attaches the right side of the swinging cradle (when viewed from behind the trailer) to the trailer and knocked it forward. I did this until the area between the rear rollers appeared to point directly through the keel rollers. In the end I knocked the right side of the cradle forward by 1.5cm.
When I recovered the boat it came on dead straight first time. I didn't even need anyone to push or pull on the boat during recovery, it just came on straight. That's the first time that's ever happened and I'm confident I may have fixed the problem.
While the swinging cradle is bolted correctly perpendicular to the trailer's A-frame, I suspect the A-frame is not quite correctly aligned with the trailer's centreline. I think the boat wasn't coming straight on to the trailer, and as the winch pulled the bow on to the centreline the stern pivoted across. Re-aligning the swinging cradle made such a dramatic difference today that I think this might have fixed the problem. Fingers crossed.... :-)
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Since making this change I've recovered the boat 3 times. Every time it has finished straight and central on the trailer and at the first attempt. I am on the verge of saying that recovery is easy and a pleasure! I think the problem is fixed and the issue with the CLH trailers was a problem with their geometry being out of the intended alignment.
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I suspect the CLH alignment jig is non - existent. I had bad tyre wear with Vagabonds trailer and had to make similar "agricultural" adjustments to the axle mounts to square the axle up so that the distance from the tow socket to the axle was the same on each side of the trailer. Tyre wear fixed (but remember to adjust the brakes)!
Rob J
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Wow, ED trailers are looking better and better!
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Oops. Fat fingers. I mentioned to say "EZ".
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I think EZ specialises in boats but CLH also make this (below) and several other kinds of trailer. If the load won't go on straight, just whack it with a stick or set the sheepdog on it.
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Rob,
Yes, that's clearly one and the same issue where (mis)alignment of the outer arms means the axle and swing beam aren't perpendicular to the trailer's centreline. I had my axle replaced last year by a local firm as part of converting to a braked trailer, but you've made me think I must check it's alignment...
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A little off topic but related to trailer set up and alignment. I've discovered why Vagabond is so reluctant to leave her trailer - the outer rollers on each side the "swinging"set at the back of the trailer are directly in line with the little "keels" on either side of Vagabond. The aft end of these "keels" is forward of the rollers when Vagabond sits on her trailer. I can move the roller assemblies from side to side to overcome this but, because of the nature of the swinging bar, it means that these rollers will be lifted up (if they are set further apart) or lowered if set further together. My inclination is to set the rollers further apart by about 3 inches.
My question is how this will affect their action when recovering the boat? Does anyone have any experience of this?
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This all sounds so familiar. I have a CLH trailer for my Sailfish 18 (funds don't run to a Swallow at this stage). I managed to correct the alignment on mine by inserting some stainless steel washers at the appropriate place and now it comes on straight. Prior to that I had been advised that the gap between the rollers on the swing beam should be about 150mm ie just wider than the keel. It was suggested that if it is much wider this could allow the boat to veer off line as it is recovered. However, I think that it is the misalignment of the rollers that was the main cause of my boat not coming up straight when recovering.
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Hello Rob.
Just seen your post - I too have exactly the same problem on my Snipe trailer
When Equinox is fully on the trailer the rollers lie behind the little bilge keels, which of course then get in the way when launching, involving some grunt to get the boat over the top of them to get the boat moving. I've tried moving the rollers further apart to try and clear them, both trying to get the rollers on the inside and outside of the keels, even trying to get the keels 'between' the rollers. Nothing worked. The wider apart you put them, the less likely the boat will 'centralise' on the trailer - really making the problem worse, so would warn against this - I have in fact, put my rollers back to the original position as set up by SB.
The only solution I can think of is to use the 'back winching' principle or even mounting a separate winch just for 'reversing' the boat back off the trailor. Either way, I think, is a cheap and effective solution.
I'm on a pontoon at the moment but as the winter approaches I will be retreating inland again to launch and recover off the trailer so will be utilising this idea, I'll let you know..
Andy
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Hi Andy,
Thanks for the bad news about recovery with the rollers set wider apart. I had suspected as much. I saw our glorious leader use the "winch off" method at the LBS last year. When I tried to emulate the method, I lead the winch strop under one of the trailer cross members and then on to eye on the bow waterline. But the friction of the arrangement round the cross member was too high for me to move anything. Next time I launch VB I'll try to tuck the strop between her keel and the first roller and see what happens.
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Rob. Yes.. I agree. I put the strop back to the first cross member (that supports the forward rollers) back around the bow above the eye which stops it sliding down then looped on itself around the forward cross member again, winching then pulls the boat back to a point that it is a lot easier to slide it off the trailer.
This is a bit inelegant and there is a very real danger you may have get your feet a little wet..
I saw the use of a separate winch on a Cape Cutter 19 (I think it was) complete with a block to the rear of the trailer that I thought was a far more practical approach. It seems this is a fairly common problem with boats the size/weight of ours.
Cheers
Andy
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I recently launched Seatern for the first time and had the opposite problem! Having lubricated all the rollers with Lithium grease spray so they spun freely, Seatern slipped off the trailer so fast and easily that I managed to launch a friend (who had a tight hold on the painter) at the same time!
Older and wiser as they say!
peter
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Going back to Jonathan's original post, my boat usually goes on straight on to the trailer at the front (now that I have a guide to keep the winch line centred) but the stern is increasingly skewed to starboard. Jonathan talks about his boat going over to the right but I think that probably refers to the whole boat and I can see (I think) why the right hand side of the swinging cradle being too far back might have that effect.
Before I had my winch line guide, the whole of my boat often ended up to port, which following Jonathan's advice seems to mean that the left hand side of my swinging cradle is too far back. I've now looked at it several times and I really can't see any difference. However, if that is the case and I've cured one problem with the winch guide, I've caused another by not getting the swinging cradle correctly aligned. Before I get my spanner out, does anyone agree?
Despite having two ratchet straps securing the boat to the trailer, I also find that the problem has solved itself by the time I get home. A bumpy drive over the Berwyn Mountains seems to bounce the stern back into position. On the whole though, I'd prefer the boat to go on correctly from the beginning.
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My hate-hate relationship with my trailer continues. Minor details like not going on quite straight pale into insignificance compared to what happened today (first photo).
I had already launched the boat when I noticed that the winch post was leaning over at an odd angle. The post base had almost completely sheared at the bottom, at a point where there appears to have been some less than perfect welding. My failsafe strop was also attached to the winch post, so was effectively useless. Luckily, the boat was secured to the trailer with two ratchet straps as well, otherwise it could have been quite serious.
As I said somewhere else, the boat trailer always seems to be the one part of the trailer sailing experience that is destined to provide nasty surprises. Using the boat, by contrast, is usually an unalloyed pleasure.
I'll be taking this up with the trailer manufacturer in the morning - name prominently displayed on the second photo. I managed to get the boat back on to the trailer with the help of the two ratchet straps (slow and difficult) and the mainsheet (fast and fairly easy).
PS If you look up this fault on Google, it is surprisingly common on boat trailers and has led to some nasty accidents. The answer seems to be to find a way of securing a failsafe strop or chain to somewhere other than the winch post. And maybe not relying just on the boat's towing eye.
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Hi Graham, I'm sorry your trailer dramas continue but thank you for sharing them as we can all learn. Do you think the post failed because of the pressure/drag of the boat on the post while being towed or because of the stress when pulling the boat onto the trailer?
Matthew
BR20 Gladys
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Difficult to say - the trip from home to Bala is bumpy and mountainous but I think the final crack only developed as I winched the boat off the trailer yesterday. This puts the post under quite a lot of strain.
Whatever the case, it shouldn't happen - imagine the fuss if VW's cars (taking a random example) developed a metal stress fault in normal if extended use with the potential to cause an accident.
PS To give CLH their due, they have immediately offered to courier me a replacement post base, arriving tomorrow.
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Hi Graham,
Intriguing - I would have thought winching-on exerts a lot more stress than winching-off, especially if the bows stick on the first roller crossbeam. I'm no metallurgist but if the crack spread progressively over time (not necessarily true fatigue) then there should be some evidence of corrosion history on the crack face.
Also, how tightly connected was the post at the bows? Was the strop long enough to allow the bows to float up and down against the face of the restraining bracket? This is worth understanding because if the stress is from the boat moving horizontally (from winching-on/of or deceleration on tow) then I can see ways to simply reinforce the post. If the stress is vertical from the bows moving up and down relative to the trailer then in my view it should be allowed to float vertically so that the boat hull is not fighting flexing in the trailer frame. I think I originally learned this from Klaus. On the other hand the boat still needs to be attached so it cannot slide off backwards.
Up to now I have relied on the winch strop and ratchet mechanism to stop the boat sliding off backwards. Not shown is that I use a rubber bungy to hold the winch handle down against the ratchet but following your experience I'll think about a better way to arrange this. Maybe I'll attach a strong strap to the draw-bar well in front of the post and lead it back over the post to the bow U bolt at an oblique angle. Has anyone else any thoughts on this?
BTW the photo shows the jockey wheel attached but after long experience of the naughtiness of jockey wheels and their enthusiasm for loosening their brackets I remove mine altogether and carry it in the car. Less trailer weight too.
The other photo attached shows my current attachment system. The main strap passes between the cockpit coming and the mast and in front of the cleats. The logic for this is that this is the strongest part of the boat and the hull is supported close-by underneath. Also this strap is lightly inclined forwards which helps restrain the boat from deceleration forces. The rear strap is simply around the boat, firmly but not too tight, because it would be easy to crush the sides together. BTW I put one twist in the strap to stop it thrumming in the wind and the buckles on the driver's side so I can watch them loosen and detach in my wing mirror. But this has not yet happened.
I notice an interesting neighbouring thread about repairing the gel-coat mentions strap buckle damage. While on the topic Matt Newland suggested using the cutup windsurfer mast-sleeves to protect the hull from buckle scratches and pad the straps over the gunnels and although untidy this has worked well.
Not shown in the photos is a long strap I now pass around the hull (with one twist of course) to support the centre board so it is not straining the CB up-haul.
All above are unqualified suggestions, not recommendations and owners must use their own judgements as to safe operation of their boat and trailer or get qualified professional advice etc. etc.
I seem to have got in rant. Sorry. :-\
Matthew
BR20 Gladys
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Graham
Looks like a bad weld from the images and with the start of the failure opening wider at the front the strain on the post applied from the rear. Like Mathew i rope off the winch winder to stop it undoing in transit, and also have a safety chain from the winch eye back to the post as a backup on the winch strap/winch. Never crossed my mind to consider the post weld failing and as a result both of my methods for securing the bow failing, and you have found evidence that it's a not unheard off.
Will implement Mathews idea of strapping the boat to the trailer between the cockpit coming and the mast and in front of the cleats, until now i have been lazy and only used a rear strap.
Informative post and response from Mathew
Peter
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Matthew, Peter,
I attach my winch line quite tightly to the bow in an attempt to stop the boat banging around quite as much as it does on country roads. I'm wondering if the fact that my Dyneema winch line doesn't flex much, if at all, might be putting an additional strain on things. I'm not giving it up though.
I've recently been following Matthew's suggestion of attaching a forward ratchet strap between the mast and the cockpit coaming. I'm wondering if that was all that stopped the winch post shearing off in transit, thus allowing the boat to go through the back of the car.
On the subject of additional straps, I notice Matthew that your trailer lacks a middle keel roller that on CLH trailers supports the centreboard if it drops.
Peter, I think you're right about the bad weld. According to Google, some trailer manufacturers class a failure of the weld at that point as normal wear and tear, which is astonishing.
When the replacement winch post arrives from CLH, I'm going to get it reinforced with an additional support at the front, angled in the opposite direction and clamped separately to the towing arm. Something like the attached.
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Graham
Bad luck on your trailer. I don’t know whether you saw these at Southampton - if indeed you were there. The frame looked really robust although the post does not look particularly strong. There were some neat touches to them - submersible lighting boards and oil filled bearings with a transparent cap - which looked attractive to the amateur (me), all at a perfectly hideous cost. There continues to be a market opportunity!
http://www.vanclaes.com/standard/index.php/en/
Best wishes
Bill
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Bill,
They're better-looking and a lot more orange than most of the substandard stuff in the UK. How much approximately is perfectly hideous?
Interesting that they've gone for stainless. A question for the metallurgists out there: is there a strength to weight advantage compared to galvanised and particularly to aluminium? And I wonder how stainless their stainless is.
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Graham
A cursory look at the website suggests 3-4K, but our boats don't fit exactly into any of their ready made options - e.g. minimum Gladius is 1000kg. An enquiry might do better.
Bill
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if the crack spread progressively over time (not necessarily true fatigue) then there should be some evidence of corrosion history on the crack face.
I think the attached shows exactly that - a crack that developed in the starboard front part of the weld, where there is rust (left side of the photo), and then much more recently cracked fully everywhere else except the port side (bottom of the photo), which hung on by a thread. If the winch post was flexing to port because of the crack, that might explain why the boat's stern was increasingly skewed to starboard on the trailer, a problem that first started to appear at Raid England last month.
Of possibly more interest is the debris in the middle of the picture. Is that a detached skull, scattered ribs and semi-mummified body of a small dead rodent? If so, how on earth did it get there?
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Graham
A cursory look at the website suggests 3-4K, but our boats don't fit exactly into any of their ready made options - e.g. minimum Gladius is 1000kg. An enquiry might do better.
Bill
That's probably at least twice the price of a (very) bog standard galvanised job.
Here's a UK company that seems to be trying to make a different sort of trailer, more on US/Australian lines http://www.geckotrailers.co.uk. They claim that their aluminium trailers are 35-40% lighter, which would save 80kg or more. This would make an unbraked rig for the BR's feasible again, as the combined weight of boat and trailer would be well below 700kg. No doubt at significant cost.
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Is that a detached skull, scattered ribs and semi-mummified body of a small dead rodent? If so, how on earth did it get there?
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Looks to me like the remains of Batus Craicus in which case you could find yourself in jail for 6 months and/or a £5,000 fine for disturbing a protected bat species nest site, Graham.
Matthew
BR20 Gladys
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Is that the one that carries rabies?
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No doubt our medical acquaintances will confirm or correct for me - but I think you are confusing rabies symptoms of rage and extreme thirst with CLH misaligned boat syndrome.
Matthew
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Just its belongings in a red and white spotted hankie on a pole.
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Quote from Graham:
"I think the attached shows exactly that - a crack that developed in the starboard front part of the weld, where there is rust (left side of the photo), and then much more recently cracked fully everywhere else except the port side (bottom of the photo), which hung on by a thread. If the winch post was flexing to port because of the crack, that might explain why the boat's stern was increasingly skewed to starboard on the trailer, a problem that first started to appear at Raid England last month."
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Bat, eh sorry, back to reality. If weld failure started at the front it suggests that the original stress occurred from pulling the boat onto the trailer. If the bow got stuck on the roller swinging beam then this could be the root cause - in which case the solution is to overcome the bow-stuck-on-beam problem. I've not had this problem with Gladys (she has given me other ones though!). I wonder if the rollers on the swinging beam should be closer together and also is it possible to raise the front of the trailer, and hence lower the rollers, when hauling the bows over the beam? Next time we meet it might be interesting to compare trailer geometries.
Maybe not quite to the point, my original roller had a very low ground clearance and I caught it hard on a sharp sleeping policeman on the Bala campsite nearest the sailing club. Result was a broken beam, so I had a new one made which I redesigned slightly to have higher pivot points and hence more ground clearance. At the same time I made the vee a slightly sharper angle and possibly moved the rollers closer together. It seems to work OK and campsite policemen can sleep undisturbed by Gladys.
Matthew
BR20 Gladys
Please note - I'm not an expert and the above are personal opinions, not recommendations - readers should use their own judgement or get professional advice. ::)
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Matthew,
I haven't really encountered bad bow-stuck-on-beam misery since last spring, when I attached a stainless plate coated with lanolin grease on top of the beam to reduce friction with the stem. But the winch post could have been severely weakened by several earlier jamming incidents. These would have been caused partly by changing from 10" to 13" wheels last winter as part of the conversion of the trailer from unbraked to braked. This would have raised the swinging beam by 1.5" - enough apparently to cause a jam.
Anyway, the replacement winch post support has already arrived and lookee here, it's been subtly modified from the original. I'd say that that small extra strut will help deal with stresses from a number of directions. I may still get a larger support beam attached to the front of it this winter.
I like your idea of temporarily raising the ball hitch end of the trailer on retrieval. There's nothing obvious on the market to help with this, as far as I can see. Probably because they don't want to be sued by some idiot (e.g. me) driving off with it still in place.
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Being a belt and braces type I have fitted an all over strap over the hull in line with the axle and a secondary strap to the bow u-bolt with an independent fastening. The over the boat strap saved my bacon, and the furniture I was transporting, when the winch strap broke going up a steep hill in Lincoln with an Orkney Longliner full of table, sideboard and four chairs!
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It's amazing what you learn on this forum - I didn't realise there were any hills in Lincoln, let alone a steep one!
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On the contrary Rob. It is a common misconception that Lincolnshire is all flat fen land, however a large proportion is hilly, with some quite big (ish!). We even have our own 'Marilyn' - a take off of the great Monroes of Scotland - at 551 feet! In the Lincolnshire Wolds (where I live).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincolnshire_Wolds
The city of Lincoln has the aptly named Steep Hill that I challenge the fittest of us all to take a trot up!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steep_Hill
To stay on subject I share the consternation re the failure of Graham's trailer - that could have been utterly disastrous had it not been discovered - doesn't bear thinking about if it came off on the road..
Incidentally. I was talking to a chap just a week ago or so, with an immaculate 'new-to-him' Etap 21 - he had just handed over the money and was towing it home when a wheel came off. He got off fairly lightly as the boat was properly strapped down with just some scrapes down the hull and rudder damage
I know with previous boats I had been almost criminally neglectful of my trailers, but now I like to think I take more attention, thanks to the awareness brought about by people raising these issues.
I cant recall what your BC23 trailer is like? But I have one of the newer Snipes that I think is pretty well made - although like you I have no end of problems with setting up the rollers and still not right. I've now got a secondary winch (tho' not strictly necessary, I now think) to winch her back off the trailer. Let you know how I get on with that.
Pic attached of the winch post - I'm not sure about the smaller Snipe trailers (now standard for Swallow Yachts) but a quick look at their website seems that they are similar in design as mine.
Cheers
Andy
BC23 Equinox 25
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Andy,
That's what a well-engineered winch post should look like - more like the Shard and less like the Leaning Tower of Pisa.
I may have already induced paranoia about trailers but I think that there's one more thing to check. Actually there are probably several more things to check (Donald Rumsfeld's unknown unknowns). The photo below shows that the clamp plates at the foot of the failed winch support base were quite heavily deformed, which wouldn't have helped the weld to stick together. A possible cause of this might be over-tightening of the bolts, although it wouldn't have been by me. The bit nearest the camera is the port side, which was still vaguely attached after all the other sides of the weld had split apart.
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I'm starting to feel paranoid too. I'm wondering what happens if the winch strap is wound very tight and the boat locked in place by the main straps, and then the trailer frame flexes - which it will during towing. Could the winch strap then be tugging against its support post with considerable and fluctuating force but no "give" anywhere? To avoid this the winch strap should be firm enough to avoid the boat rolling back but not under great tension. As with lots of engineering problems the trick is providing stiffness where it is needed but allowing for flexing where almost irresistible forces may meet almost immovable objects. Engineering-in too much stiffness into structure is generally expensive, heavy and breaks weaker stuff around it. Could get philosophical on this.
Matthew
BR20 Gladys
Please note again - I'm not an expert and the above are personal opinions, not recommendations - readers should use their own judgement or get professional advice! ::)
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More on Vagabond's CLH trailer.
At long last, I think I've got the set up right.
At the risk of being tedious I have moved the rear rollers (the two sets of four that sit on posts attached to the swinging arm) further apart so that the outer rollers of each set are just outside the two "bilge keel" runners. This overcomes the "stop" provided by these "keels" when trying to launch but also lifts the stern of the boat up a bit (when on the trailer) which gives more clearance between the hull and those dreaded steel mudguards.
I also liberally sprayed silicon lubricant on the axles of each roller. The result is that Vagabond slides off the trailer without the need of the Mo Mentum effect that I mentioned much earlier in this thread.
My concerns that the about recovery in this new layout were unfounded. Not only did the the rollers guide the bow up nicely above the swinging arm but they held the boat both straight and centred as she was winched up. The bonus was that the effort required on the winch seemed much less that before.
It's only taken four years to sort this out!
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I was at the yard the other day, complaining vociferously about the trailer, as is my wont. Matt mentioned that a kit is being developed to overcome swinging cradle misery. This is the misery caused by the bow jamming against the swinging cradle beam when the boat is being winched on to the trailer, not the misery caused by it going on squint.
The kit comprises stops on each of the lengthwise trailer beams to prevent the cradle from swinging fully horizontal, allied with longer fore and aft arms holding the rear roller assemblies. Apparently the kit helps lift the bow up and over much more effectively. Watch this space!
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I had CLH make me a couple of small roller brackets to fit to the centre of the swinging arm - I think this is also what Matt has in mind. Tried the new fitting for the first time last weekend when I took Amy Pearl out of the water for her winter snooze. The brackets worked a treat, effortlessly raising the bow over the cradle.
Graham, I share your pain over failing winch posts. The same thing happened to me a couple of years ago (http://www.swallowyachtsassociation.org/smf/index.php/topic,847.msg5208.html#msg5208) after trailering over some very rough west Highland roads. I never got to the bottom of why it failed but the reinforced post that CLH sent me as a replacement has been solid as a rock.
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Brian,
I hadn't spotted that you had had an identical problem with the base of your CLH winch post. This suggests that it's not just a general trailer problem but more importantly it's also a structural weakness with that CLH part, perhaps only for trailers of a certain vintage (we're both 2010, I think).
I would therefore recommend that anyone with that particular winch post inspects the weld around the base regularly and if doing a lot of trailering on bumpy roads or over mountains, gets the post properly reinforced on the front side. I think we're both very lucky that we spotted the weld problem before it caused an accident.
I'll post photos of the swinging cradle mods when I get my boat back in a couple of months.
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I don't think I posted this before in the "swinging beam" thread but I have noticed that in the video of Matt recovering his BC23 there are some extra central rollers on the swinging beam which my trailer does not have. These rollers appear to be designed to make the swinging beam swing!
Peter
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Peter, this is exactly the setup I asked CLH to copy for me :) ; and they actually work better that those seem to do in the video (no need to relocate winch strap)
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These rollers, positioned at the centre of the swinging arm came as standard on my BC23 Snipe trailer. The keel rolls onto, and then over them and positions the swinging arm quite well.
I don't see why these couldn't be used on BR20's or Bre's? I imagine they would be cheap and easy to make up and fit.
Regards
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Interesting pictures from Peter.
My 2015 "state of the art" SBS trailer would be improved by a roller to ease the passage of the bow of my BRe onto the trailer. This I will do before the start of the 2016 season.
It is a shame that the design and engineering excellence displayed in the construction of our boats is not reflected in trailer construction.
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Well I'm not sure if reading this thread before my trailer winch support failed would have helped or not, but its certainly enlightened me now! Last week I lined up my BR20 and was just starting to wind the winch ( no real tension yet) when the winch started moving at 90 degree to the line of the strop, away from me. I quickly saw that the weld had failed at the bottom of the post in much the same way that Graham's did. I have been in touch with CLH who say they have no idea why this has happened and offered me a replacement for £25plus VAT/carriage. No mention of there being an improved version. Meanwhile a friend has arranged for a welder he knows to repair it and add some strength. The break looks as if it was only ever welded on one of the four sides of the post - amazing that it lasted this long.
I do have a problem with the 12" roller at the back of the trailer and also asked CLH about this. They say that they did not fit this roller and it must have been added by Swallow Yachts. They also cannot supply a 12" roller but suggest I use an 8" one which they can supply.
I have attached a couple of photos but have lots more if anyone is interested.
Any thoughts/suggestions welcome!
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Hi, its been brought to my attention that the photos I mentioned on the above item are not visible. This is because they are marked as moderator approval required.
In the meantime my post has been returned by the welder who has added a strengthening piece.
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Sorry, I hadn't noticed the photos required approval - and I don't know why they did! - but I've approved them now.
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The break looks as if it was only ever welded on one of the four sides of the post - amazing that it lasted this long.
Looking at the photo of the failed weld, the weld is clearly all around the bottom of the post as you would expect, what is worrying is the box section of the post appears to have separated from the weld leaving the welded section of the box still inside the weld.
So fatigue cracks in the box section is most likely, suggesting that the box section material is not up to the job, or the welding process is leaving the material brittle near the weld. The small additional support section your welder has put behind the post will have some beneficial help but CLH should really look at this in more detail i think and offer some explanation.
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That's the third BR20 trailer made by CLH in that era (2009/2010) to have suffered from this specific winch post failure. If it happened on the road and the ratchet straps were not holding the boat down, it could cause a nasty accident.
It ought to be easy enough to remedy - get an extra support welded to the base of the post, as in Chris's photo above or as per the attached. I suggest that everyone having a CLH trailer that came with an early BR20 checks their winch post without delay.
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I've just been reminded of one other important point - if your boat's bow regularly gets jammed against the trailer swinging cradle on retrieval, that certainly won't help. Particularly if you've had the trailer converted from unbraked to braked, which usually involves having larger diameter wheels fitted. The extra inch or so of height makes quite a bit of difference. The answer is to have brackets fitted to the trailer frame that stop the cradle swinging more than 45°, preventing jamming and making retrieval easier. See http://www.swallowyachtsassociation.org/smf/index.php/topic,1141.msg9835.html#msg9835
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Ok, so I have now returned to my trailer, fitted the new( or at least old, but rewelded and strenthened) post and removed the roller which I showed a photo of earlier. Once CLH and Swallow Boats had denied any knowledge of this roller I spoke to the previous owner who said he had fitted it, but it hadn't helped and I was best removing it and throwing it away.
Recovering the boat gave me chance to watch exactly what happens when I winch the boat on. This convinced me that the solution I need is the one Graham showed which limits the swing of the swinging cradle, and possibly his other one with the stainless plate bent over the beam. I am now wondering what the best way is of sourcing a suitable method of doing this. Any ideas? Where did you get yours Graham? Has anyone else done it? I suspect best thing will be to find a local welder - again!
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Chris,
The yard supplied me with the limiter brackets for the swinging cradle, although I'm sure that any metal shop could knock up something similar.
I made the skid pad thingy myself, with some stainless steel sheet, a length of stainless tubing, some thin rod to hold the tube in place under the sheet and a couple of large u-bolts that secure everything to the rear beam. I think I bought it all on eBay.
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In the end I knocked the right side of the cradle forward by 1.5cm.
Jonathan, do you think a similar cradle correction on my trailer would give the desired effect? 'Mist' currently ends up at this jaunty angle on recovery. (See pic attached)
Best
Pete
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That really is jaunty, even by CLH standards!
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Hi Pete,
Yes, if your boat isn't straight on the trailer then it's definitely worth checking. I had this problem with my BRe and then again with our BC26. Without the boat on the trailer it was quite easy to see that the rear rollers on the swing beam weren't "aiming" towards the trailer's centreline and bow post. Adjusting the swing beam fixed this. Just needed a couple of spanners / sockets and a hammer. Swallow Yachts produced a document about this problem and how to fix it. See link below.
https://www.swallowyachtsassociation.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/What-to-do-if-your-boat-is-skew.pdf
Jonathan
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The problem is misaligned roller sets obviously, Jonathon though adjusted the swinging beam alignment on the trailer, the Post from Matt describes altering the roller fixings on the beam.
Peter C
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Yes, good point Peter. But regardless of what is adjusted - the swing beam or the roller mounts - the issue is the same, i.e. the rollers are pointing in the wrong direction so don't "load" the boat parallel to the trailer's centreline. On my trailer the swing beam and the rollers' mounts were both square section so it was impossible to adjust the direction they pointed. However, the swing beam could be adjusted so that did the trick.
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Hello Swallow sailors, I am a new member and new owner of Svala (on an unbraked trailer) which is up in Scotland near the Gatehouse of Fleet. I realise that with my Citroen Berlingo 1.6 GTI the log book says I can only tow 540 KG's with an unbraked trailer. I have read the informative thread on Trailers. Two questions. Does anyone know of a trailer fixer in Dumfries who can convert my unbraked trailer to a braked trailer ? Should I buy a kit from CLH trailers and find a garage that can do the job in Dumfries or round there ? Any tips gratefully received.