Swallow Yachts Association
Swallow Yachts Forum => Home Builders' Area => Topic started by: Anthony Huggett on 11 Dec 2010, 19:39
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I've just started unwrapping my 40th bithday present. The semi-mythical Bayraider 17 kit, never photographed in the wild until now. Here's a couple of photos of what comes on the trailer, and in a half unpacked state, down to the box (which contains most of the hardwood, compass, hatches, etc..
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Is there a part no.1 that you start with?!
Or do the instructions just say "Glue the wooden bits together and then paint in colour of choice?"
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Would that it were so simple.
There are 3 different parts to put together just to make part 1!
The instructions are quite helpful, and there are detailed appendices that describe how to do every job. But I'm still at step 1 - check the parts list.
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I had an interesting chat with Matt about producing a kit for the Baycruiser. There is a customer in the USA who really wanted one. Matt said producing the kit is not a problem, it is producing the detailed instructions which is the nightmare. The American buyer insisted he did not need instructions as he was an experienced boat builder. But can you imagine just receiving the kit and not a word of what was what? Glad I bought a prebuilt one! I just towed it to the water, got in and went for a sail.
(Actually I got in and had to motor it backwards to a mooring buoy, but that's a different story...)
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Hi Anthony,
You are going to have fun putting this together. We are building the first Aussie BR17 at the moment and she is coming together really well. You can see from the pics that she has a really nice shape and will be fast.
keep us posted on your progress.
regards,
Andrew
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Andrew,
Many thanks for the photos of the part built hull - a real encouragement!
Is that a GRP moulding for the ballast tank floor?
I'm still trying to solve the logistical problems of storing and builing in a space 21 ft by 8 - what a joy it must be to have a light airy workshop!
Anthony
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Hi Anthony,
No GRP molding. The bottom of the tank/hull is fibreglassed/epoxied and we paint it out before we install the ballast tank top with a heavy duty epoxy based paint suitable for continuous immersion.
Believe it or not our workshop is not big enough!
regards,
Andrew
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I bet it's warmer in Australia than in my garage at the moment! Anyhow, work has started - I've jigsawed out the build cradle parts.
The plywood box that the smaller parts come in makes an excellent support for cutting the large sheets, provided that you remember where the support beams are, and don't get trigger happy with the jigsaw!
Fortunately the mistake was easily rectified with a piece of scrap wood screwed underneath.
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Hi Anthony,
Here's a few more pics for you. The application of the foam to the cockpit sole is propably the least enjoyable part of the whole build. It is not difficult - just messy and you will certainly be glad when it is over.
The boat is going together really well and is very fair - hats off to Swallow Boats again.
We will be releasing kits in Australia at the end of the month.
How far along are you and are you having any problems with the cold weather?
regards,
Andrew
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Hi Andrew,
Thanks for more great pictures.
As you'll see from the other thread, I've made the first finger joint on part 1B & 1C, and I've now made the second. But I think me putting a photo of every joint on here may be excessive.
The cold weather has made it harder to get much done. Essentially I use electric oil radiators in the garage to get the temperature to a cosy 10 C, allow the epoxy to part cure, and then stand the panel on edge next to a heater which bakes the joint off nicely (so the epoxy sets nice and hard).
I'm doing this for fun, with no particular schedule. Part of the joy for me is in having a project that I can go out and do a bit as and when I feel like it. That said, it will be nice when a lot of cut up plywood starts to take shape as a boat. My guess would be end of February to get to that stage. I will keep the forum up to date with major milestones.
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Progress is slow but steady. The trailer has gone to my in-laws', and I've created a plank building table as shown in the photo. The key feature is that the oil heaters can sit right under where the joint has been glued, raising the temperature where it's needed so that the resin cures even when it is struggling to get above zero outside (and elsewhere in the garage).
Planks 1 and 2 are now assembled, 3 is on the table. It takes about an hour of sanding per 20 finger joint, but this more than doubles for the 40 finger joints on plank 1 because it's more work to keep unpicking the fingers as you work your way up the joint, sanding to making each finger fit.
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Andrew,
Thanks again for all your pictures. What size of steel box section did you use for the build cradle?
Anthony
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Anthony
You may recall, in the 'hole filling and peel ply' thread to which we both contributed, that Simon Holden, finishing off (pre-painting) his Storm 17, commented that he glass/epoxy coated both sides of the hull panels BEFORE assembly. I wondered whether you plan to do this?
You may also recall that I expressed gobsmackery (there's a possible new one for Tony et al) at the idea, which on reflection seems such an obviously good one. In case there were potential problems, which I couldn't foresee and Simon might have avoided, I sounded out Matt Newland. In his exact (email) words, 'Epoxying panels first is the way to go. No flexibility issues but sand them before you start assembly and it will save you lots of time later.'
The oracle has spoken!
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Michael,
I'm definitely intending to follow Matt's advice.
I've now got all 6 hull planks assembled, awaiting sanding on the joints, sanding around the edges and then epoxy coating, before I start the hull assembly in earnest.
I think it's just a base epoxy coat that goes on at this stage, to seal the wood. For strength the glass cloth has to overlap the seams of the assembled hull, so goes on later. I guess one could put the glass cloth on the panels before they are bent to shape and then put glass tape on the seams. But that could make the panels too stiff to bend, so I'd rather not risk it.
The only place where I think it is recommended to use glass cloth before assembly is the inside of the centreboard case,
Regards,
Anthony
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Hi Anthony,
Steel for the jig rails is 50 x 50 x 3mm and I have attached a couple of pictures of the jig for you and another shot of the 17 at painting stage.
WRT to pre glassing the planels you have come to the right conclusion - don't do it as you are going to have enough fun getting the shape in the two bow panels without the additional stiffness of the glass - not that hard if you take it easy but the glass would make it nigh impossible.
If you do pre-epoxy, be really vigilant with amine blush removal and surface prep before any secondary bonding occurs.
regards,
Andrew
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Andrew,
Thank you again for the pics and info on the cradle.
Nice to see the finished hull. What a beauty!
Mine isn't coming on quite so fast - but I'm only managing to average 1 man hour per day, with work and other commitments.
Anthony
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Hi Anthony,
We launched the BR17 earlier this week and I have a couple of early pics for you. (motivation!!!!!) It will take me a week or so to get some sailing footage up on youtube but she sailed really well and was very responsive. The winds were only around 10 kts and below so I am hoping to get her out in some heavier stuff over the next few weeks.
regards,
Andrew
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Having epoxy coated all the large ply parts, and sanded off the first couple of planks, today was the day we started putting her together.
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Coming along now then Anthony. Your just a couple of days ahead of me. Must be nice to have something resembling a boat.
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you're catching me up Anthony, I'm waiting for more epoxy before glassing the bottom. I've made up the centre board as the first peripheral component.
Steve Jones
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Steve,
I think you have a comfortable lead! Have you (or Andrew or Matt) any tips to share on getting the bow into the mould? It looks from Andrew's pictures as though the panels have been screwed onto the mould, which will force them into the right curve, but at what stage do you remove the screws? I'm concerned that if I don't get the right shape then the outer keel pieces won't fit properly.
Anthony
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Finally I have finished the first stitching & taping, as you will see from the images.
One thing I think I got wrong (or not as good as it could be):
I put the transom into the formers, and then stuck the inner transom pieces on using a combination of the rudder bolts (though with a fresh nut so as not to damage the nylock) and a heavy bag of salt that provided a decent even load. So far so good, and I'm pleased with the result. The thing is, I wonder if it would be neater to put the single thickness transom on the hull, stitch & tape, and then put the other pieces over the top of the tape? As things stand I will have to flowcoat and sand the inside of the transom in the outboard well area at some point to disguise the taping.
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Stage 1 is nearly complete (bottom and intermediate planks, transom, internal structure below the floor.) All that remains is to glue the floor support battens in place, paint the intereior and plane the top edges of the battens. Meanwhile I'm taking advantage of the dry-ish weather to put the boat outside and start on the floor.
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Finally, some progress to report. Behold the floor of a BR17!
I think this takes about 3 weeks to do from start to finish, working evenings and weekends. Having someone to mix the epoxy is a huge help.
Hopefully, once the floor is stuck in the boat I can push on with the rest of the construction.
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We finally got the lapstrake top panels on this afternoon. Pretty much by the book, and fitted beautifully at the bow (all down to Matt's computer router, I'm sure). Stern connection remains to be done another day. There's no problem there, just not enough time.
So, 1 year (on Tuesday) since I bought her, and she finally looks like a boat.
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I spoke too soon! All seemed well until I tried to fit the main and aft bulkheads. It seems the top panels are too upright and not curved enough. That is distorting the lower panels above the floor so the starboard side is nearly half an inch from the bulkhead in the angle between the top and middle panels.
Has anyone else had this problem?
My thoughts to fix this are to relax (ie. cut and replace with loose ones) the cable ties and fillet the bulkheads and structure to the bottom panels, then retighten the top planks before filleting and glassing.
I might also try spreading the top panels with some sturdy timber and wedges.
Any advice gratefully received!
Anthony
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Anthony,
Have a word with Matt. When I was doing the bulkheads on my S17 Matt advised that I was trying to get them to fit to tightly and this would distort the panels, it was best to leave a few gaps and use fillets. Not sure if this applies to the Bayraider though.
Clem
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Hello Anthony,
I can not remember much trouble around either bulkhead, but prior to fitting them I braced the maximum beam ( 182 cm ) with a stout piece of timber. I left it there until both seats were in.
Another difference with my configeration is that I incorperated a couple of deck beams , I have not taken any decent pics to show any of the stages unfortunately. Yet more changes made , in that I reduced the height of both bulkheads by 6mm to allow for a deck to be laid, and I cut a larger access hole in the forward bulkhead and beefed up the bulkheads to take stuff to be screwed to them.
Does not address your problem though, my instinct would be to do as you suggest and do a best fit to the bulkhead profile.
I really admire what you are doing in such a confined space !
All the best,
Steve
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Hi Steve,
Thanks for that. I think that if I spread the max beam as you did, the whole thing may come good. The main problem is that the top is too tight because of the straightening effect of the rebated gunwhale. It's particularly acute at the stern.
Anthony