Swallow Yachts Association
Swallow Yachts Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: Jonathan Stuart on 06 Apr 2018, 18:21
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Interesting announcement from SY:
http://swallowyachts.com/range/coast-250-new/
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No water ballast? Bit of a first there.
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A motor sailor which really sails and really motors (up to 15 knots with a 70hp engine!), genuinely without either 'mode' being compromised? - if Matt really has cracked that, he's probably on to a big winner. Using an outboard right inboard is very clever in lots of ways; and where the weight is probably obviates the need for water ballast or whatever.
The reviews will be interesting.
When I think back to my first Swallowboats kit build (Storm Petrel), and even my current (and forever) Trouper 12 (one of Matt's early designs and, I still maintain, a cracker), Swallow-er-Yachts have come a long way. Well done, Matt.
Michael Rogers
Trouper 12 'Cavatina'.
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Thanks Michael.
The new boat is certainly a departure for us, both in terms of styling and in the attention given to the motoring capability. I wanted to explain a bit more about the thinking behind it, and why I hope it will be an important new line of craft for us.
Here in West Wales, we have some of the best beaches in the UK. (Yes, I know lots of people say that, but we really DO!) However, we are constrained by tide, and one of our favourites, Aberporth, is 7 miles away. Sailing there with kids in the summer is a non-starter. They don’t all love sailing as much as me (weird), they want to spend more time on the beach than sailing there, and they don’t want to spend ages sailing “in zig zags”, or motoring at 5 knots getting home.
Say it quietly, but I considered getting a RIB. (The doctor told me it’s quite normal apparently, for sailors to have a “RIB phase”.)
But then I started thinking about the constraints on a sailboat under power, and why it shouldn’t be possible to have a great sailboat, that simply has an oversized engine. An outboard is by far the most efficient in terms of power to weight, but the weight needs to be mounted in the right place (hence moving it forward). However, the biggest issue was that simply over-powering a sailboat hull with a large engine causes the stern to squat for hardly any increase in speed. I considered all sorts of radical (and expensive) ideas for overcoming this but eventually I stumbled upon a relatively new type of trim control device used in certain power boats, at the Marine Equipment Trade Show in Amsterdam. The Wolfson unit at Southampton University helped me verify how these would work with a sailboat hull, using a number of CFD (Computational Fluid Dynamics) simulations, a process that the boat-geek in me enjoyed enormously.
The COAST 250 is the result. A boat purpose designed for me and my family, so that we can get to our local beach more efficiently!
I really believe there is a wider market than that for it though, and here’s why.
When I get to the beach, I can go sailing. I have hardly ever been sailing around Aberporth, because getting there and back takes up too much time. I went sailing down in Chichester Harbour, enduring a marathon motoring session against an ebb tide to get home again. Wouldn’t it be great to be able to motor a bit quicker? Our South Coast Dealer Nick, recalled a weekend cruise being spoilt for lack of wind on the Sunday, necessitating most of a day of motoring at 5-6 knots to get home. And whenever I was under engine with the kids, it was that simple, childlike question, “why can’t we go faster?” that always got me.
With the COAST, I can sail much further with my family, knowing I can get back in reasonable time if needed. I can stay out longer, knowing I can beat any ebb tide comfortably. I can motor to different sailing grounds and explore new places. All these points and more gave me the confidence to go for it, as long as we did not lose sight of one crucial point. She has to completely and totally sail perfectly. Every boat is a compromise of course, but we didn’t want this one having to compromise ANY sailing performance to motoring. After all, despite considering a RIB, I am still a sailing fanatic.
Matt Newland
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Here's a review of the MacGregor 26, which went out of production when the maker retired a few years ago https://www.practical-sailor.com/reviews/boatreview/macgregor_26-1208-1.html. It had water ballast and could hang a very large outboard off the transom. It looked like a motorboat that had sails and wasn't admired by purists but many thousands were made, so they must have got something right.
There was also the Hunter Edge, similarly powered and water ballasted but apparently better made than the MacGregor https://www.sailmagazine.com/boats/hunter-edge
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Hi Graham, I was down at Swallow yachts today and Matt's response to my mentioning those reviews was that in comparison he wants to have a boat that both sails properly and motors well! The photo of the Hunter Edge with someone water-skiing or wake boarding and the boat trimmed horribly shows exactly what he intends to avoid on the motoring side. They've done some on the water trials with a (nearly) full size wooden mockup of the hull and in a video it looked really good - none of that huge "badly trimmed powerboat" wake.
...it won't be as good for wake boarding as the Hunter but at least you won't get followed by jet skiers using the wake as a play ground!
Peter
p.s. Lara got the Raid arrangements finalised today (there had been a delay sorting out arrangements at Mylor but now fixed) so expect a post about it very soon.
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https://venturasportboats.com/ventura-2300/
Looks like everyone in getting into the act. This is a friend of mine that previously made the Potter sailing range of boats. This is the 23', so a little smaller. He also make an 18' boat.
{The 23 will have both fixed and water ballast}.
;D
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Here is the macgregor that Graham referenced. It will sell for less than listed.
https://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/boa/d/macgregor-26x/6549185911.html
I have to admit that I am not a fan of these boats.
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https://venturasportboats.com/ventura-2300/
Looks like everyone in getting into the act. This is a friend of mine that previously made the Potter sailing range of boats. This is the 23', so a little smaller. He also make an 18' boat.
{The 23 will have both fixed and water ballast}.
;D
I think this tells you who the Ventura target customer is: "New to sailing, but don’t want to take weeks of classes? Our exclusive Sail-A-Matic coded ropes, paired with an innovative user manual, will simplify sailing for newbies, and finally close the knowledge gap between power and sail"
The scale model appears to show an outboard hanging off the back, like the MacGregor and Hunter.
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The Coast certainly looks the part from the outside. I think it will need a certain amount of "bling" internally to compete in its market. I asked Matt if it be an option to have it without the rig.......
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Question , "will the outboard motor have electronic controls? Just wondering how you will engage reverse while single handed going in to a marina, mooring or berth. :o
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I think it is a really interesting idea. Keeping my boat in the upper reaches of Milford Haven, to get to the opening of the Haven, can take several hours especially if against tide. To be able to get past the more industrial and narrow areas quickly could be a godsend. I look forward to seeing the boat, it just needs to sail well!
James Phillipps
ex BRe owner
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Hello All,
Just a quick update, we joined hull and deck today - a big moment in boat building terms, though it took 2 of us only an hour to complete. Ive attached a photo, but to answer some of the other points, the engine will have a remote throttle - standard yamaha kit, so you can raise, lower, start, and throttle it all from the controller at knee level in the cockpit - just like on on inboard. As to sailing performance and the Macgreggor/ventura, I see them as aiming for a different market. By hanging the engine off the stern, you need a deeply submerged transom, which works well for motoring but not so good for sailing. The COAST 250 should be a very good sail boat, but a very average motor boat. I'm not trying to do both well!
Matt
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I like the mean look. Are we to see her at Mylor? (No pressure,Matt!)
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Outboard arrangement understood. Just like a conventional saildrive really? But as petrol, probably lighter and cheaper as well as being more " power dense"". Then there's perhaps all the new environmental "advantages'" to consider too.
I'm really very interested in the hull form and novel trim tab arrangement that makes it all possible, any chance of some details please?
Btw, there's a macgregor moored near me and it looks REALLY odd towing kids behind it on skis, with the mast up! The power boat trim, and associasso wake, just seems to make it appear in more weird!
Apologies vor weirdspellings, but have had to do a factory reset on my tabket, and the spell checker/auto complet seems to have gone rather random. Trying to get that back to what it was. How?
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There's an advantage over a sail drive - you can lift the motor out of the slipstream when sailing!
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Yes and perhaps even more useful - you never have to worry about catching lobster pots, mooring warps or other stray lines again, just lift the engine and clear it all off.
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There’s a fairly new Youtube video showing the Coast 250 sailing and motoring https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vDKnBU8Djzw#fauxfullscreen.
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Two more videos of the 250, motoring and sailing, have been posted on the Swallow YouTube channel https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCinUCwBfitI6BqJGLIfkYqg.
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Thanks for the link Graham.
Pleased too see that the Coast 250 has had a nomination for European Yacht of the Year for next year - I wish Matt well with that.
Anyone know how much these are selling for in the UK? I see the link on the SY website to a German magazine show it at 'from' 59k Euro's - which seems reasonable ish to me, but presumably without VAT, trailer and hoiking great engine etc.
Andy
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Anyone know how much these are selling for in the UK?
Hi Andy,
Matt's price list at the Boat show had the basic boat at £54,950 (inc VAT). Add trailer, 70HP Yamaha, asymmetric, spray hood, mainsail lazy bag, and copper antifouling and you are talking just under £73,500. Other extras available include nav lights, fridge, sea toilet plus holding tank, fully installed gas cooker system, etc.
I do like the idea of faster (and quieter) motoring but I think I'll have to stick with Seatern!
Peter
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Thanks Peter.
Not too bad when said quickly ... !
I'm in the market for a larger cruiser at the moment - having gone continental this year the bug has bitten.. but maybe a bit larger than the Coast.
Andy
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I'm in the market for a larger cruiser at the moment.
Apparently a Coast 290 (and a 210) will be coming out in due course.
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The most recent (November) issue of Yachting Monthly has a full review of the Coast 250 that is mostly complimentary. They conclude with the positives:
Fast and easy to handle under sail
Smooth and efficient planing under power
Roomy and practical layout
And the negatives:
Engine could do with more sound-proofing
Foot braces on the cockpit seats would be useful
Self-tacking jib presents limitations
The first two negatives, which weren’t mentioned anywhere else in the article, should be easy to fix. The third could be improved with the use of a jib boom and perhaps a topping lift on that boom. The price as tested was just under £78,000.
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April edition of PBO has a very complimentary review of the Coast 250.
I would certainly trade in "Four Sisters"* for a Coast 250 if:
1/ I could live permanently in my summer cruising area in the Ionian.
2/ I could find the 50 or 60 grand needed to bridge the price difference between the two!
Once again Matt has broken the old adage that 'the smaller the boat the bigger the fun' - but I'm happy with my CBL #1.
* "Four Sisters" is a 19' Cardigan Bay Lugger, designed and built by Matt in 2004/5. (She was the one after the Storm 19 and before the Bay Raider.)