Swallow Yachts Association
Swallow Yachts Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: Julian Swindell on 30 Jul 2008, 16:56
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After much thought and lots of counting on fingers I have taken the plunge and ordered a ply-epoxy BayCruiser from Matt. I visited him and his team in Cardigan last Friday, and after sailing in a BayRaider and wandering round the workshop decided this was the boat for me.
It means I shall have to sell my much loved Winkle Brig so if any of you want a delightful 16ft pocket gaffer let me know. In the mean time, I am going to try to record the whole development process on my web site, which you can follow at
http://www.jegsweb.co.uk/boats/baycruiser/
Any comments or advice would be gratefully received, and I will keep you posted.
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Julian,
congrats, some decision in the time of the credit crunch. Lovely looks, and certainly a lot more space and pep than with your current boat.
I did not like the project too much at first because I thought the cabin would be as cramped as in my old Drascombe Coaster. But with Matt raising the freeboard vs. the open BayRaider, there should be better room inside. Very interested myself now.
The big question for you now is of course, what colours?
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Thanks for your encouragement Claus. I thought of a Coaster when I bought my Winkle Brig, but I could not understand how they had managed to get so little accommodation into such a big boat. The Winkle Brig has remarkable accommodation for its size, but that is partly why it is, shall we say, a little staid and tubby.
I shall agonise over the colour, but even more so, what shall we name her?! That could take longer than building the boat.
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Hi Julian,
Congrats on taking this next step. Somebody had to get Matt working on the layout :)
Will be interested in developments as the cabin design and layout gets worked out.
Now about the exchange rate from the UK Pound to the Canadian Dollar...
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Hi Julian.
Congratulations on ordering Baycruiser No. 1. I think it'll be a really good option - and if I could get away with it I'd order No.2.
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Julian,
I enjoyed looking at your website and ideas for the Bay Cruiser layout.
In regards to stowing the main, with the yard along the boom, have you considered using a set of lazy jacks, running down from the mast head to possibly 2 points on either side of the boom?
They would need to run back down the mast and to a cleat so they could be tensioned for furling or slacked while sailing. Tensioning would act as a topping lift on the boom and would cradle the yard and sail.
Possibly Tony has done this on the CB Lugger. Tony? What do you do for main furling?
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Hi Bill,
Thanks for your comments. Most of my scribblings are just that, something to keep me happy while Matt designs things properly. Boats are not easy. Each time I come up with a wonderful internal layout I find that the space I have squeezed three berths into is only eight inches high and triangular in cross section.
One thing I like about the Bayraider is the lack of control lines. I just worked out on my current little gaff sloop, with main, jib and topsail, I have 15 ropes to set everything up! When I saw just two ropes cleated on the front of the Bayraider mast I thought, That looks neat. So I do not really want to add lazy jacks to it if I can avoid it. We shall see.
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In my experience of the current BayRaider roller-furling jib I think you are being a bit optimistic expecting to handle it remotely from the cockpit:
1. It tends to need a couple of tries and perhaps a gentle tug down to get a neat furl, and that is when it is not driving the boat.
2. If being used as a reefing method or if you want to handle remotely I would find a roller-reefing mechanism to suit.
3. On the point of reefing I would suggest that the idea of jib and mizzen rig for depowered sailing is great, safe and not as dull as it sounds! I think furling the jib would be a less balanced option.
4. I think lazy jacks are quite a good option for sail/boom handling. I have to drop everything into the cockpit which is practical and quick but untidy with sail, boom and yard competing for foot space and risking jamming the outboard and tiller movement if you aren't careful, due to their length.
Happy to discuss further if you wish...
Guy.
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Agree with Guy, with all he says. To manage the jib clubboom cum jib furling in the open boats, you need to stand behind the mast, close, because you must grab and work the rear end of the clubboom. Haven't the foggiest how this can be done on a cabin boat. Lying flat on the roof, is all I could imagine and I would not do that in a swell.
The most obvious solution would be that the BRC would get a standard (non-clubboom) drum furled jib, but that would cost a lot of performance vs. the open BR, especially for the case the boat is sailed with jib and mizzen only.
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Julian,
I enjoyed looking at your website and ideas for the Bay Cruiser layout.
In regards to stowing the main, with the yard along the boom, have you considered using a set of lazy jacks, running down from the mast head to possibly 2 points on either side of the boom?
They would need to run back down the mast and to a cleat so they could be tensioned for furling or slacked while sailing. Tensioning would act as a topping lift on the boom and would cradle the yard and sail.
Possibly Tony has done this on the CB Lugger. Tony? What do you do for main furling?
Hi, Bill + Julian.
Yes, the Four Sisters has lazy jacks controlled by a jam cleat in reach of the cockpit, to keep the yard inboard when lowering the main. (Other sail controls are two rows of slab reefing points and a dipping line rigged diagonally from the fore end of the yard to the aft end of the boom.
As you know the CBL is basically a Storm19 with a lid - but the mast is moved forward and the standard rig replaced with a balanced lug.
Now perhaps this doesn't point as high as a triangular sail and perhaps my tacking angles need slimming down a bit (- and deploying the roller furling jib the way I have it set up at the moment is a bit of a hassle - I might yet have to fit a bowsprit to make the dipping line redundant) but I wouldn't swap it. One minute you can be running or reaching at 6 knots and the next lying quietly enough to take photos of passing wildlife, search for something in a locker or just roll a fag in peace. All you do is haul the mizzen in tight and let go the main sheet! No flogging canvas, or drama of any sort. She rounds up into the wind and rides over anything that comes her way like a duck. Reefing is just as trouble free. When head to wind, ease off the halyard (or the downhaul!) and take up your reef. then re-tension everything, slacken off the mizzen, back the main to bear off by pushing the boom briefly into the wind, and off you go. Everything is controlled from the cockpit and easy for a single hander.
Dropping the Main is a bit more fun. Yank in the mizzen again and when head to wind let go the halyard. On a good day it all ends up on the cabin top in about 2 seconds flat, and all you do then is leap on it with a couple of sail ties in your teeth and lash it down to the Stbd hand rail. I don’t use the lazy jacks as a topping lift because on a bad day a wayward gust of wind might get under the sail when its half down, the yard hangs up and the peak ends up going over the side. I want that boom and yard secured as quickly as possible! Most of the nasty tricks can be avoided by a good grip on the pennant when it gets within reach! The yard (a carbon fibre spar) is light but has enough weight to bring the sail down on its own. The high peaked gaff on the BayRaider/Cruiser I presume will do the same job when the halyard is let go?
The balanced lug has its faults but it really is a very powerful and handy sail. You can see why it was so popular with working boats.
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I am not sure lazyjacks would work on a BayRaider/cruiser because the sprit boom is not at the bottom of the sail. You could get lazyjacks to one side of the boom, but they would have to go under the sail and back up to get to the other side.
I do not know if remote setting/furling of the self tacking jib can be achieved in practice, but I would like to have a concerted attempt at it. So long as all control lines come off the club at the pivot point, they should allow it to swing OK. The problem is whether you can really get enough control through all of the bends and twists that will result. We shall see.
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Lazy jacks are not a problem if you fit them as an inverted Y instead of a running loop under the boom. Matt fitted mine in about 10 minutes when I first collected my new and shiny boat.
Get a piece of string about 40cms longer than the boom and fix it to each end. From about the mid point of this take another length up to a turning block at the top of the mast as shown on the diagram.. This is high enough not to interfere with the lug sail yard and works very well.
I occasionally, if I feel the need to be a complete control freak, I fit a second bit of string, running down the other side of the sail. This really stops the yard having any choice about what it is going to do when you let go the halyard.! It does takes a bit of fiddling around to get the length right (Too high and the knot jams the turning block, too low and it traps the yard) and so I don’t often bother as the yard is quite easy to control as it comes down.
An Idea.
If there is too much friction in the leads to furling gear on the club boom (as you suggest might be the case,) why not put the drum at the mast head? Only two turning blocks needed!
Ah! Just thought of a problem with that.
Matt wont let you!
He doesn’t build ugly boats!
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Hi Everyone,
Matt is soon to start building the first BayCruisers and he has added a lot of information about it to the Current Boats section of the website. Have a look and see what he is up to. I'm going to find it a long winter waiting for mine to be launched!
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March 6, 2009 and the first BayCruiser is fully under build! I went, with other prospective owners, to have a look at the planked hull today. She was built upside down on a jig, unlike the Bayraider, and was just turned over this morning, after the anti-fouling was completed. The interior is ready to start, now that I have lain down inside so Matt can check dimensions. I will publish photos on my website at
http://www.jegsweb.co.uk/boats/baycruiser/home.htm
but the first photo should be below.
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Thanks for the picture Julian. It must have been an exciting day to see the hull and discuss the layout with others.
We are planning to visit Swallow Boats in early May and hope that there will be a BC in build then, or finished.
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Julian,
When you were looking at the first hull under build at Swallow and discussing the layout, what was the decision on the companionway? I see from the pictures you have posted that the aft cabin bulkhead has quite a slope similar to the Cardigan Bay Lugger. Will there not be a sliding hatch? I think this is the simpler solution, but wonder what it does to the interior. Does it force one to sit further forward on the side seats?
Regards,
Bill Wickett
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We tested with the mockup to see if you can actually stand in the sloping companionway and you can, quite easily, so it seems that a sliding hatch is not strictly needed. It may make you sit further forward in the cabin, but not much, as your head is narrower than you shoulders, if you see what I mean. It also means you have a nice sloping back support whilst lounging on deck reading a book and having a beer (the main point of sailing in my experience). What may be a problem is that if it rains, you could get more rain into the open cabin, but a spray hood should help solve that.
What is particularly nice about the construction method is that nothing is absolutely fixed until it is finished. When I saw Matt clamping bits of plywood into different positions to mock things up I asked if he just got it all in the right shape and then simply poured epoxy over it to fix it. I was slightly disconcerted when he said "Yup, that's about it."
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Dont worry too much about rain, Julian. At anchor (unless you have a strong tide) the BC will weathercock and very little rain will get in. If shes anything like the CBL, once the sprayhood is up half the cockpit is completely sheltered, too. One thing to watch, though. In heavy rain I get a trickle of water coming around the edges of the sprayhood track. It runs down the bulkhead and on to the side decks causing a few wet backsides before we worked out what was happening.
....and, yes. The bulkhead makes a great backrest. I suspect that Matt and his mates put an awful lot of R&D (not to mention tea and coffee) into road testing the cockpit – it works when you are sailing and works when you are goofing off, too. Anita and I spend happy hours NOT sailing. Reading, eating. You name it. A so-called friend refers to the Four Sisters as the six knot sunlounger. I forgive him, though. Poor bloke has a Dabber.
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The first BayCruiser is now well advanced in build. I have updated my website about it, with a link to the Classic Boat article about it from their May issue. I have also updated the slide show with some revised and additional pictures. Have a look here if interested:
http://www.jegsweb.co.uk/boats/baycruiser/
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We are into the end game (I hope!) Cabin is going on and she should be at Beale Park, but without rig. I have put a short slide show on my website of some photos from Matt showing her in the workshop. I am starting to get quite excited... I will be really fed up if the current perfect sailing weather disappears as soon as she hits the water.
http://www.jegsweb.co.uk/boats/baycruiser/home.htm
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The hull of the first BayCruiser was on show at Beal Park. Still a lot to do but now we can see what she looks like and how the interor works. Short slideshow at
http://www.jegsweb.co.uk/boats/baycruiser/home.htm