Swallow Yachts Association
Swallow Yachts Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: Rob Johnstone on 06 May 2022, 20:27
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The RYA has just announced that thete seems to be a require.ent to fill.in some sort of customs declaration she taking your boat on a trailer to Europe. The s at is no.one seems to know what form this declaration will take. In the meantime the recommendation is to take your boat egg through the RED channel.
Rob J
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Sorry about the above typo ridden posting. Here it is in plain language:
The RYA has just announced that there seems to be a requirement to fill in some sort of customs declaration when taking your boat on a trailer to Europe. The the snag is that at the moment there's no consensus on what forms need to be completed to make the declaration. The RYA report that "several" boat owners have been fined for non compliance by the French police. In the meantime the recommendation is to take your boat into Europe through the RED channel when you tow it off the Ferry (assuming there's one running).
Here's a link to the RYA news article:
https://www.rya.org.uk/blog/trailing-a-boat-abroad-in-2022?utm_campaign=RYA%20Cruising%20News%20-%20May%202022&utm_source=emailCampaign&utm_content=&utm_medium=email
Rob J
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Zut alors! Last time I trailered abroad (in 2016), there were problems with autoroute blockades and vehicles being hijacked in the vicinity of Calais. To avoid all that nonsense, we took a Stena ferry from Harwich to the Hook of Holland and bypassed France almost completely. Not a cheap option but partly offset by avoiding autoroute tolls and filling up with very cheap fuel in Luxembourg. And the Stena ship was in a different league to the utilitarian ferries on the Dover-Calais run, with a decent restaurant and comfortable cabins.
This idea is no help at all if you’re holidaying in France itself but might be an alternative if going further afield. A further benefit would be missing out on the gridlock around Dover and the delights of P&O.
I assume from the RYA report that it’s currently only the French authorities who are finding fault with UK paperwork, not other EU countries, who may perhaps be more accommodating about such things. Plus ça change…….
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Alice Driscoll has written an amusing article in the summer edition of ‘Practical Boat Owner’ about trailering a tall and wide J24 back from the Italian lakes. The main problems encountered seem to have involved TomTom diverting them away from motorway queues and up into the very narrow roads of hilltop villages.
There’s no mention of Rob’s EU paperwork in the main article but the trip did take place some time ago, before Brexit. There’s a recommendation in a side box to the article to consult the RYA website for current documentary requirements.
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Hi Rob,
I too read that RYA article, but I write from the Spanish Mediterranean sitting on our BC26 Iris.
We came through Spanish Customs off the Plymouth-Santander Ferry on Thursday 23/6/22, ready to divert into “something to declare” channel as advised by RYA, we weren’t given the choice.
Directed over to the uniformed Guardia Civil, he wanted to see our MCA registration and check that against our SSR number on the boat. He also was keen to know if the inside of the boat was “ empty”. Now, as many can attest, Iris is far from “empty” (although Carol did take one of the three coffee pots off for this trip). He didn’t get in but had a very good look inside. I think he meant empty of people. After this inspection and noting the SSR registration, we were allowed to go on our way.
The Spanish Passport control was more interested in the boat as access to Ibiza!
Prior to leaving Plymouth, we were approached by Border Police, very chatty, but clearly checking all the while. They talked about a ‘carnet’ available from them that helps clear customs. I shall look into it but at £400 or so, We might also take our chances.
Incidentally for those trailering their Swallow on this ferry, another boat had £100 worth of flares confiscated and we lost 5 litres of spare diesel - almost the same cost at today’s prices!!
I shall post any further customs adventures on return.
BW Alistair
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Has anyone experience or advice on towing in France, Holland, Germany, Denmark or Sweden?
Matthew
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Has anyone experience or advice on towing in France, Holland, Germany, Denmark or Sweden?
Matthew
Matthew,
my experience from 40 years of towing extensively through IRL, UK, F, NL, F, BE, D, DK, CH, A, IT is that I never once was pulled over, weighed or documents checked, or just questioned. But then, I always HAD an officially registered, documented, maintained and certified tested trailer, not overloaded, and an appropriate towing car.
My advice is, you do the same. Do comply meticulously with all official regulations of your home country, and trust the chances are near nil you'll ever be challenged about that when abroad. But do carry some internationally recognized insurance docket, just in case something untoward happens..
C.
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I cover my boat with a net rather than a flappy tarpaulin when trailering. This demonstrates that I have nothing to hide and keeps customs officers at bay. It also shows that I have nothing worth stealing in the boat.
If travelling on French autoroutes, especially in peak season, it’s worth investing in an electronic gizmo from Emovis https://www.emovis-tag.co.uk/subscription/. This entitles you to use the normally empty left hand lane at toll stations. Your toll charge will be registered automatically on your account as you drive slowly through. It gives you a sense of VIP superiority as you bypass long queues of frustrated motorists waiting to pay their tolls by cash or credit card.
If you want to bypass France altogether, I recommend taking a Stena Lines ferry from Harwich to the Hook of Holland. Compared to the dismal P&O Dover to Calais experience, it is very impressive, more like being on an upmarket cruise liner. It may be more expensive than P&O and Eurotunnel, especially if you get an overnight cabin, but we thought that it was worth it. If heading south east from the Hook, expect traffic jams in Belgium and always fill up in Luxembourg, where fuel is really cheap.
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Llafurio,Matthew and Graham,
All of this makes sense and agreed re the advantages of Hook of Holland. I guess what would be really useful is whether anyone (in addition to Alistair) has post Brexit experience of close encounters with, for instance, French or Dutch customs/immigration?
BW
Bill
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I have no experience yet of trailing my Baycruiser 20 abroad post Brexit, but as an owner of a, soon to be disposed of, SSR registered boat in Italy, can vouch for the fact that VAT checks on UK vessels, in or out of the water, are ramping up.
The local financial branch of the Italian police boarded me in Italian territorial waters a few months ago and I was able to satisfy them that I was not VAT liable locally largely because, unusually, my boat was purchased by its first owners in 1990s France and, thus, is VAT paid in the (current) EU. In fact, if you read the relevant RYA guidance - for addicts only - of itself, that does not absolve a non EU owner from paying VAT again in the EU, post Brexit transition, depending on when the boat reentered the EU from the UK and for how long.
A relatively clued up and efficient French official might have given me a harder time. Equally, I would not bet on the Dutch, or the Irish, turning a blind eye to the post Brexit EU wide requirements on trailing from the UK, once they have absorbed them. The relative freedom of the past 40 years to roam within the EU, without much paperwork, is history and we have to equip ourselves for the inevitable controls at the point of entry. What we need is clarity about the paperwork. The RYA has made a start.
In the last 2 years I have collected more passport stamps in the EU than in the preceding 40, globally!
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Our trip to Brittany and back via the Plymouth Roscoff ferry with 2022 launched BC23 “Foxwhelp” went off without any problems. We were inspected leaving Plymouth and asked for ships papers and insurance.
They confiscated two packs of declared out of date flares which was in fact convenient as they are now so hard to dispose of! They were easily replaced in France. They also inspected our gas inflated life jackets. I believe there is a limit of 6 on the ferry passage. There is also a limit of 5 liters of fuel. We declared our galley knives which were locked in the cabin. I have heard that they will confiscate multitool knives……
Leaving Roscoff was even easier, and returning to Plymouth, customs simply waved us through having perhaps noticed that we had gone the other way six weeks earlier. I was surprised they did not want to open the hatches and check for stowaways in either direction!
At least on this trip, having laminated ship’s papers and insurance in hand seemed enough.
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... I guess what would be really useful is whether anyone (in addition to Alistair) has post Brexit experience of close encounters with, for instance, French or Dutch customs/immigration? ....
I have no info on that. I no longer tow through UK.
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Thanks to all. If there is anyone else out there with recent experience all info would be welcome.
BW
Bill
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Bill,
As Rob J mentioned at the start of this thread, it looks like the RYA continues to be as confused as everyone else about customs requirements when crossing the Channel https://www.rya.org.uk/blog/trailing-a-boat-abroad-in-2022. It seems that going through the red channel and completing a customs form of some sort are the main recommendations.
I only have secondhand recent experience of nearby border controls, living closely as I do to the Port of Dover. French immigration periodically find themselves unable to cope with the volume of traffic, as they did last summer. This then jams up the M20 with waiting lorries and can delay outgoing UK tourists by several hours.
Depending on who you listen to, the delays are because the UK Government has failed to invest in additional Brexit-related infrastructure in Dover; or alternatively it is retribution for the UK having done something to upset the French government, like hijacking orders for submarines.
Apparently it can now take up to a minute to examine and stamp each UK passport in Calais, whereas in Greece for example, it only takes seven seconds. Whoever is to blame for the queues at Dover, it has led to 'Year in Provence' types reducing their considerable contribution to the French economy.
Again based on secondhand experience from both British and Dutch friends, the Dutch are more accommodating, not to mention pragmatic about these things. Another reason to avoid Calais and head for the Hook.
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... I guess what would be really useful is whether anyone (in addition to Alistair) has post Brexit experience of close encounters with, for instance, French or Dutch customs/immigration? ....
I have no info on that. I no longer tow through UK.
Is the Eire > France/Spain ferry experience substantially unchanged?
Or have they too found necessary the "enhanced security checks" described by MD?
Santander/Bilbao ferries (Basque separatists) have been intermittently problematic for very many years, I seem to recall being seriously delayed by a situation in about 2001?
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We were inspected leaving Plymouth and asked for ships papers and insurance.
They confiscated two packs of declared out of date flares which was in fact convenient as they are now so hard to dispose of! They were easily replaced in France. They also inspected our gas inflated life jackets. I believe there is a limit of 6 on the ferry passage. There is also a limit of 5 liters of fuel. We declared our galley knives which were locked in the cabin. I have heard that they will confiscate multitool knives……
Leaving Roscoff was even easier, and returning to Plymouth, customs simply waved us through having perhaps noticed that we had gone the other way six weeks earlier.
Who (which officials) inspected what, where, please MD?
Eg HMRC in UK? Or French Douanes in Plymouth now?
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Is the Eire > France/Spain ferry experience substantially unchanged? ..
Yes. For EU citizens, it's free inner-EU transport without limitations whatsoever.
However, there are noticeably more open -and concealed- checks for illegal activities such as human trafficking and drugs. Also at irish ferryports.
And, because of the Common Travel Area of Ireland and UK, travellers on Ireland <> France ferries must now present a valid passport prior to embarkation, not just an identity card.
UK citizens arriving at irish ferryports from UK are being checked for goods exceeding EU import allowances. EU citizens may also be checked in this process, but are exempt from all import duties for goods purchased within the EU.
IMO, how Brexit got "done" is pitiable. We european citizens deserve better.
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Graham - thanks very much. I've read the RYA page which is helpful but not quite definitive! Holland sounds like a good bet, but its a long way around if one wanted to go to the West Coast of France! I keep reading tempting accounts of adventures in the Charente so someone is going there. I'll persevere and report back if I find anything useful, BW Bill
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It's over a year since trailing abroad was last addressed. Has anyone useful advice based on experience in 2023? Are there new regulations for trailer construction or lighting? Any new documentary requirements? Change in behaviour (good and bad) of people wearing peaked caps at borders?
Matthew
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I was questioned by french border police first time ever last year on my return journey from Morbihan. That was while queueing up in Roscoff for the ferry back to Cork. Both are EU ports.
First, they only wanted proof of ownership, nothing about VAT. Apparently, some yacht by the name of "Homer" had been reported stolen, so I was suspicious. As I had no proof of ownership with me, they took photos of my boat to compare with photos of the stolen "Homer". When the photos did not match, at all, they asked for an insurance docket, which I also did not have on me. Then they decided I did not actually require insurance cover for the boat for leaving France aboard a ferry.
Finally, they cautioned me not to return to France on own keel without carrying proof of insurance.
I took that to heart of course.