The Epropulsion Spirit XS - A Horse for our Course?

[Sea Simon]

There's a SECONDHAND Temo (the French made Motor on a stick "longtail" motor thing) on Facebook group boat bits for sale SW, but at £1400; this iabout the same as new price....Must be telling me something, but I'm not sure what?

I've posted about the Temo before. It would perhaps suit my tender application well. But is both too expensive and too "nickable" for me.
I'll see what's about when my Honda 2.3 dies!

[Matthew P]

Hallo Michael - great to hear from you!

I bought a Thrustme Kicker last year primarily for use on Hilda my CLC Northeast[er] Dory, for exactly the same reasons you are interested in one.  Hilda is, I think, similar to your Trooper in size and character.  I also bought it to "manoeuvre" Tarika (BR17) in confined shallow water such as the end of the town pier at Lake Bala.

I am very pleased with it.  It quietly propels Hilda in most reasonable conditions for an hour or more (several miles) if used sensibly.  On the DCA River Dee meeting it was effective for an hour with 2 people in Hilda towing a Mirror dinghy and heavy crew.

I would not recommend it for extended cruising on a heavy boat but I'm confident it will propel slowly Tarika in calm conditions.  My first attempt in Tarika (BR17) was in Pembroke last week and unfortunately the prop ingested some sort of fibres and broke the blades which are slightly flimsy but enclosed in a duct.  The motor is supplied with a spare propeller which requires some small Allen keys to fit.

It's easy to manage, light weight, you don't have to be a rugged Norwegian fisherman to carry it. The controller is a simple "key fob" blue tooth device which means the motor can be controlled remotely from anywhere in the boat.  On the down side the magnetic "kill switch" which doubles as a power off button falls out easily and yes, the prop will break if it ingests rubbish.       

Best Wishes

Matthew
BR17 Tarka
CLC Northeast[er] Hilda

 

[Graham W]

Torqeedo have just dropped their UK retail prices by something less than 10%.  Compared to the equivalent eProp, they're still about 20% more expensive for a 25% shorter battery range.  They have also extended their warranty, which given my experience of their flimsy build is much needed. However, I don't suppose that bits breaking and dropping off in normal use are covered by the warranty.

[Graham W]

The eProp outboard battery is about to become useful if we have to endure a winter of rolling power cuts, courtesy of the Kremlin.  eProp are bringing out a power output cable set, possibly at the end of this month, which will give you access to the battery’s 48V for external use.  You’ll need to connect it to a step down controller, preferably waterproof, to bring the voltage down to 12V but they are easy to find https://www.amazon.co.uk/HOMELYLIFE-Voltage-Converter-Waterproof-Regulator/dp/B09Q1Z94GQ/ref=asc_df_B09Q1Z94GQ/.

12V uses for dinghy cruising include connecting to a decent air pump for inflating and deflating beach rollers or an inflatable dinghy.  With a solar controller, you could also use it to recharge a flat house battery if the sun is being elusive.

Domestically, it could be used to run a 12V cool box or some of the other 12V gadgets that you find in campervans.   I’m going to hook it up to 12V LED strip lighting so that in the event of power cuts, we can carry on more or less as normal, in the kitchen at least.  These LED lights, which come with a switch and can be daisy-chained to each other, are particularly useful and give off a bright warm light https://www.atenlighting.co.uk/led-rigid-strip-cable.html.  Calculating on the back of a fag packet, I reckon that the eProp battery could run three or four of these continuously for more than 48 hours or a single one for well over a week.

[Sea Simon]

Great ideas GW, we are all going to need to be a little more resilient this winter!

Living where I do, we've had to do similar for many years...multifuel stove 8KW room heater (flat top, so can cook and heat water), gas hob (only cylinder gas hereabouts).
Got a Tonne of coal in.

Water supply is a bigger risk, but a few old folk hereabouts still prefer the well water from the end of our lane.

However, from an electrical point of view I have long-since taken a different route and have a generator, with about 40 gallons of petrol (in our cars as well as some cans!).
One of these...
https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/clarke-pg2500a-euro5-22kva-320v-petrol-generat/
Not as cheap to run nor as pleasant to be around, but very versatile.
In conjunction with calor LPG gas allows us to run our central heating if wanted.

Above vaguely on topic ?

[Graham W]

In case anyone is afflicted with extreme range anxiety but fears immolation from Li-ion batteries, this secondhand LiFePO4 battery pack might fit the (very large) bill https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/125598080894.  With 48V and 120Ah, I calculate that it has enough capacity to run an eProp Spirit at full speed for more than five hours.  Or at the sort of speeds that I usually do, more than ten hours to give a range of at least 40nm.  There would still be plenty left over to run and recharge other devices on board through a 12V step down converter.

[Graham W]

Outboard giant Mercury is bringing out a small electric outboard, the Avator 7.5e. It uses something called a tranverse flux electric motor (me neither).  It weighs more than the ePropulsion Spirit but has less power and a smaller battery capacity.  Like all other electric outboard companies, Mercury makes dubious claims about its motor’s equivalence to petrol engined outboards.  Like eProp, it uses Li-ion batteries, not the somewhat less combustible LiFePO4.  There was incorrect speculation that use of the latter might explain the Avator’s adverse weight/performance ratio.  No price has been announced yet but it may need to undercut existing manufacturers if it hopes to pick up market share.  Still, the more competitors in this sector, the better.

The long plate just above the Avator’s propeller is interesting.  Presumably its purpose is to deflect astern any upward prop wash, thus improving propulsion. A similar effect can be achieved by installing a rigid outboard well infill once your motor is in the down position, as discussed in this thread https://www.swallowyachtsassociation.org/smf/index.php/topic,843.0.html.

See here for more details on the Avator https://www.mercurymarine.com/en-gb/europe/engines/outboard/avator/mercury-avator-75e/.

[Sea Simon]

Interesting....

https://www.horizontechnology.biz/blog/electric-motor-design-radial-vs.-axial-transverse-flux


Avator motor is a big lump by the look of it, and heavy too.
With battery 27kg, same weight as a Honda 5/6 HP...but I guess you can split the Avator in two parts?

Plate is known as an anti-ventilation plate. This explanation is relevant.
"The anti-ventilation plate (AVP) does not stop or help prevent cavitation. Its sole
purpose is to prevent surface air from being sucked into the negative pressure
side of the propeller blades. This plate creates a high-pressure barrier that
prevents exhaust gases and ambient air from being sucked back into the blades.
Anti-ventilation plates are mounted to the lower units of boats and can also help
increase performance somewhat. They act as a small planing surface to get your
boat on top faster. They give you better bow response when trimming your
motor. They keep water down at your prop and intake, improving water pressure.
All planing boats and vessels equipped with stern propulsion, outboards, stern-
drives etc., are equipped with anti-ventilation plates, however there are no
established theoretical models for the function, why most of them are based on
legacy, production limitations and trials.
The future propulsion powered by electricity will open-up for radically new and
more efficient designs. Decoupling the mechanical driveshaft will provide
positioning and function freedom.

Even if electric propulsion will remove the exhaust, the surface air is still there,
however, the design and function could potentially be different."

https://www.chalmers.se/SiteCollectionDocuments/Industri-%20och%20materialvetenskap/Kandidatarbeten%202020-21/IMSX15-21-14.pdf

[Graham W]

If anyone needs a spare battery for their eProp Spirit, there’s a used one currently for sale on eBay.  £650 and open to offers, compared to £975 new.  It has a crack in its casing, so some hard bargaining may be in order.

[Graham W]

In case anyone is afflicted with extreme range anxiety but fears immolation from Li-ion batteries, this secondhand LiFePO4 battery pack might fit the (very large) bill https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/125598080894.  With 48V and 120Ah, I calculate that it has enough capacity to run an eProp Spirit at full speed for more than five hours.  Or at the sort of speeds that I usually do, more than ten hours to give a range of at least 40nm.  There would still be plenty left over to run and recharge other devices on board through a 12V step down converter.

Price now reduced to a more reasonable £1,250, about half what the seller says he paid for it.  Given that an official eProp battery costs around £975 and has just over 1/5 of this battery’s capacity, this is a bit more tempting.

On the other hand, it’s seriously bulky (55 x 40 x 20) and weighs 35kg.  What looks like an identical item but with a smaller capacity charger is available directly from AliExpress in China for delivery in two months at a cost of £954 plus VAT/import charges https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32960742844.html.

[Graham W]

A secondhand extra short shaft eProp Spirit (the one that fits BR outboard wells, just) is for sale on eBay for a somewhat ambitious £1,550, negotiable.  See https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/225493714743.

[garethrow]

I have sent you a PM Graham
Regards
Gareth Rowlands
BR20 GRP Halen Y mor

[Graham W]

The conclusion of a conversation with Gareth was that the eProp isn’t really suitable for motoring in and out of the Teifi Estuary, where currents can run at up to 4 knots, especially if the normal routine is to leave on the flood and return on the ebb.  Add adverse wind and some waves to slap the boat about and a BayRaider would be lucky to make any progress at all. I expect that there are plenty of other places where this might be a problem.  I tend to avoid them or do things differently.

[Sea Simon]

Perhaps a "case" (pun intended) for a £1250 secondhand battery on wheels?   

Hereabouts (Cornwall) biggest spring tides always accur at approx 0600/1800, so it is relatively easy to plan a day at sea, out with the ebb and home with the flood on the biggest of tidal currents (which are more like 2k, rather than 4).

That said, it's the best part of 2 miles to the open sea, and pals have found that E motors are a problem with range/duration just when they are needed most...slightly late return home, after a great day out...and pushing the ebb.
It's not unusual to see E boats dodging home up the banks, trying to feel for slackwater - or even abandoned downstream on the town pontoons and a taxi home...

[Graham W]

One way to banish electric range anxiety misery is to have a spare battery.  And another battery to charge that battery.  And solar panels.  And an MPPT controller.

All hideously expensive compared to a stinkpot but I wouldn’t go back to internal combustion under virtually any circumstances.  You just have to plan and think differently compared to having all that power on tap that allows you to blast through anything.  Or not, if you can’t get it to start because the carburettor’s clogged again.