Expensive and tired old technology?

[Graham W]

Master & Commander, 1969.

[Michael Rogers]

Thank you, Graham. Trust you to know!!
Michael

[AndyB]

As requested please see in the library section , maintenance & modifications - boat instruments (https://www.swallowyachtsassociation.org/?page_id=2710) an article on my boat instruments, how it is setup and what programs I wrote to get it all working. I hope it is not too detailed but conveys what I have been doing.

If there is anyone out there who wants a similar approach or just questions on general setup please do get in touch and I will try and help out.

Best regards
Andy B

[Graham W]

Thank you Andy.  Even if most of us (including me) are not tech-literate, we can all appreciate the stunning clarity and sophistication of what you have on your Kindle screen shots.  The oligopolist chart plotter brands charge ludicrous prices for items that at the margin cost them virtually nothing to push out - chart upgrades in particular.  I think that they’re cutting their own throats in the longer term, particularly if your approach becomes commercially available based on large high definition colour e-ink devices.

Interesting that you helped on Openwind.de.  Well done for furthering the Bluetooth-based cause, which should ultimately produce all the data that you need, transmitted wirelessly and seamlessly to devices of exceptional clarity.  And requiring neither a big battery nor deep pockets.  We’re definitely getting there!

[Graham W]

I’ve just come across another waterproof tablet-based navigation system by Norwegian company Orca https://getorca.com.  I’m not quite so convinced about this one compared to its Belgian competitor Sailproof https://sailproof.shop.

It’s quite a bit more expensive than Sailproof and unless I’m missing something, can’t operate as a normal tablet in its spare time.  Its battery seems to be about 25% smaller.  It relies on NMEA 2000 and wifi rather than Bluetooth to connect to the rest of any network (including transducers).  And although it makes claims about readability, I couldn’t find any information on the technical specification of its screen, which seems to be sourced from Samsung.  If you want to rely on its underlying charting and other software (I’m not sure that there’s any choice in this), then you have to pay a large annual subscription.  And looking at comments on the owners’ club, there seem to be quite significant software glitches.

In short, it doesn’t seem like the oligopolist-killer that Sailproof and a gaggle of Bluetooth-oriented sensor companies (Calypso, Openwind, Echozilla) may one day turn out to be.

[Martijn]

I’ve just come across another waterproof tablet-based navigation system by Norwegian company Orca https://getorca.com.

My brother has one of these, and it's a drama. The connection between the Orca and display/tablet often is lost, syncing routes between the 2 doesn't work and lots of other issues.
He's ditching it in favor of a Garmin, so if anyone has an interest.... 

[Graham W]

Here’s another rugged Android 11 tablet that shares many of the attributes of the Sailproof 10 but at significantly less than half the price https://www.amazon.co.uk/OUKITEL-RT1-10000mAh-Octa-Core-1920x1200-Black/dp/B09LC65BX6/ref=sr_1_1_sspa.  It’s IP68 waterproof, has a large battery, a 10” screen, GPS and Bluetooth and appears to be well protected from drops and knocks.

Sounds too good to be true?  For our purposes, it probably is, as although screen resolution is similar to that of the Sailproof, the Oukitel’s sunlight readability is probably insufficient - 350 nits vs the Sailproof’s 1,000 nits.  It might be suitable for use at a below decks chart station but probably not in the cockpit.

[Graham W]

Scrolling down the Amazon page for the Oukitel RT1, I noticed that there’s a much newer model, the RT2.  This has twice the battery capacity and memory of the RT1 and runs Android 12 but appears to be in all other respects the same.  It is still only half the price of the Sailproof but would probably still suffer from the same sunlight readability issues as the RT1.  See https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0BFX2X7TS/ref=sspa_dk_detail_0.

[Willie The Rut Lander]

I've just placed my order for the Sailproof 10" - primarily based on advice from this thread (thanks in particular to Graham W). Maybe if I already owned a decent tablet I may have gone for some decent waterproofing but I went for the deep end with the Sailproof.I've now just got to decide which apps to run on it; probably Navionics and, later, Antares. As Antares requires Memory Map I may get that as well but I'm not certain I'll make it to Scotland this summer.

So if anyone is interested in the SP10 just ping me - though I'm not planning on using it in anger until mid-April.

BTW - I was very unconvinced by the Orca as it just seemed to be another proprietary bundle with a hefty price tag and reliant upon remote inputs that were not readily available on a BRe, i.e. it was a sledgehammer to miss a nut.

[MarkDarley]

Swallow fitted my BC23 with a Garmin GPSMAP 722XS and a Garmin GNX Wireless Wind Pack.  They communicate via Bluetooth and perform flawlessly, or at least did last season.

Having not really had the need to get to grips with this stuff in 2022, I will need to in 2023 to cruise the Swedish Archipelago etc.  I have used Navionics in friendly UK and French waters that I know, but I want to be sure I can avoid all the Baltic granite in 2023!

[Graham W]

I've just placed my order for the Sailproof 10" - primarily based on advice from this thread (thanks in particular to Graham W). Maybe if I already owned a decent tablet I may have gone for some decent waterproofing but I went for the deep end with the Sailproof.I've now just got to decide which apps to run on it; probably Navionics and, later, Antares. As Antares requires Memory Map I may get that as well but I'm not certain I'll make it to Scotland this summer.

Congratulations on your Sailproof purchase.

I think that if you have Navionics (vector charts) and Memory Map for All (raster charts, plus NMEA instruments if you want them), then you have all the bases covered.  MMfA has just become a lot more attractive as the UKHO raster charts now come in an HD quilted version.  This means that if all the charts for an area are of the same scale (say 1:12500 around Falmouth or 1:30000 around Barra), then they run seamlessly from one to the next.  Previously, you would fall off the end of a chart and then have to fish around for the next one. 

The complete set of 850 UKHO charts covering the whole of the British Isles is available through MMfA for £25.  So even if you don’t need Antares chartlets for the time being, there’s still a good reason for getting MMfA.

[Willie The Rut Lander]

Thanks Graham
Seems very sound advice. I'll give both Navionics and MMfA a shot.

[AndyB]

I have just bought a sailproof 8 inch as well. Very good tablet pleased with the purchase.  Please see picture. It is in an aluminium ( home built) cradle and  stuck on at the moment until I am happy with the arrangement. I have it connected by wifi to the raspberry pi and get NMEA traffic as much as Navionics can handle.  I also attach it to my phone via bluetooth so can get internet. Useful for Navily.
On the tablet I have : PredictWind, Imray Tides, Solentmet, Met Office, BBC Weather, Royal Navy tides, Navily, Sail Expert.

For charts I have Imray (comes with the paper charts) , Navionics ( paid subscription). I tried out Aqua Map and Savvy Navvy but they did not seem to have a lot of detail especially when anchoring. I like paper charts and use them a lot but not sure raster works with small screens. However I do like the clarity of Imray and it provides different info to Navionics so having both is a plus.  I would like to see how AngelNav works when it comes out on  Android. My goto apps are Predictwind and Navionics but use the others for specific purposes.

The tablet can be seen in the cockpit, close enough to adjust size of map, last the whole day - what more can you ask.  I have removed the 3 screen navigation buttons and use gestures so get a full screen. AIS is a pain and I tend to filter it. Too busy in the Solent. I expect much better when in the channel/outside Solent. Not sure whether it should be landscape or portrait. Would welcome advice.

My phone, a Galaxy S20+  ( hand me down from my son), has Samsung Dex. This is brilliant. I network this ( wirelessly) to a Samsung Dex program on the Windows 10 PC.  I can then project Navionics ( or any other app) on to my 23 inch screen and create routes which is much easier with a large screen, keyboard and mouse. They automatically get sent to the Sailproof.

[Graham W]

Good stuff.  Interesting to see how much clearer your Kindle is compared even to the Sailproof. 

I reckon that an 8” screen is fine for Swallows with lids but may be too small for a BR20 if it is placed at a distance from the helm, just under the foredeck.  I prefer portrait to landscape but it depends on the space available.

Please can you share a photo of your aluminium bracket without the tablet in it?

[AndyB]

I went down to the boat yesterday which was a cloudy, sunny day. Typical weather for these parts. I could easily see Navionics from the the end of the cockpit which is about 6ft away. What is interesting is that there is a limit to the angle of viewing of less than 25 degrees. So it is difficult to see on the starboard side when less than 1 ft from the front if you are sitting down - leaning forward resolves this.

I was helping put an anemometer on Madhu's 26 on a very sunny day ( Friday) and he commented on how difficult it was to see the Garmin GPSMAP plotter. It seemed to me that the Sailproof was easier to see than that and the number of Nits bear that out. The last picture did not show it up favourably - maybe the phone camera showed too much reflection.

The 10 inch version has the same number of pixels as the 8 inch which is why I went for the 8inch. You get the same amount of information in a smaller area. I would find it difficult to find a place on the boat to put a 10 inch bearing in mind you spend most of your time adjusting the resolution depending on what you are looking at. From where you are now in detail to panning out to see where you are going. This is why I have it so I can reach it easily from the tiller. Like you I am tending to portrait as it is more natural for the tablet but maybe a complex rotating cradle - now that would be a challenge.

The cradle is fashioned from 1mm aluminium sheet from your local DIY shop. Cutting it is the most difficult. A picture of it empty is attached. I have for the moment stuck it on to the cockpit using Mimeimial double sided tape from Amazon. I use this to start off with and then move to a more permanent fixing like the kindle below when I am happy. The rope holders will stay like that - they do not use the tape but have stayed stuck on for a couple of years now.  The cradle being of 1 mm thickness does have sharp edges which although sanded can still cut you so it is best having the tablet in situ.  Not been out in high seas yet -- but if it falls off the tablet is supposed to be rugged.