Author Topic: BC 23 Waterline length?  (Read 3434 times)

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MarkDarley

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BC 23 Waterline length?
« on: 18 Aug 2022, 18:36 »
Does anyone know the waterline length of the BC23?  Not the overall length!

I need it for an RYA YTC rating certificate for next week’s Dartmouth regatta Dayboat class.

Does anyone already have an RYA YTC certificate for their BC 23?
Thanks
Mark
Mark Darley,
Wooden Swallow Bayraider 20 "Pippin" and Baycruiser 23, “Foxwhelp” in UK
GRP Swallow Bayraider 20 "Kelpie" in Northern California. Yes, I am a bit of a Swallow believer!

Jeremy Apted

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Re: BC 23 Waterline length?
« Reply #1 on: 19 Aug 2022, 09:07 »
I have the LWL as 6.5 metres. We work on a performance based handicap or class handicap in Australia.
I would be interested in knowing the RYA rating.
Regards
Whistling Kite. BC23

MarkDarley

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Re: BC 23 Waterline length?
« Reply #2 on: 20 Aug 2022, 10:49 »
Lara at Swallow has confirmed the waterline length for the BC 23 as 6.53m.

RYA has used 6.58m (perhaps misreading my .53 for .58)
Using that figure,  the RYA YTC has rated us at 987 with all four sails, and 1012 with “white sails”.

This does not include water ballast.  I asked for two ratings, one with and one without water ballast, saying I would commit to with or without ballast at the beginning of a race series or regatta.
They refused saying it is their policy to rate all water ballasted boats without the ballast, as they cannot control whether we pump it out or move it. Clearly people cheat to win!

I will let you know how we seem to perform against other Dayboats with this rating in the Dartmouth Regatta this next weekend. 

https://www.swytc.org.uk/viewcertificate.asp?id=1342&ky=Fm23606
Mark Darley,
Wooden Swallow Bayraider 20 "Pippin" and Baycruiser 23, “Foxwhelp” in UK
GRP Swallow Bayraider 20 "Kelpie" in Northern California. Yes, I am a bit of a Swallow believer!

Sea Simon

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Re: BC 23 Waterline length?
« Reply #3 on: 26 Aug 2022, 15:11 »
At least getting your LWL figure as less than your LOA figure has increased your SWYTC handicap number (improved it) from your original 982!
 ;D

https://www.swytc.org.uk/publicdata.asp?id=1342

That said, that 987 YTC number will still make life tough for you in a mixed fleet, imho.

SWYTC, especially with the RYA interpretation of "displacement", does throw up some "anomalies"...

Have a look the mini transat style, rather sporty "Django 7.70", a 25ft bilge keeler, with inboard diesel saildrive. Almost 40m2 upwind sail, 92 m2 downwind with large assim. But displacement 2460kg.
RYA YTC rated 993/1024, ie "slower" than a BC23...

https://www.swytc.org.uk/publicdata.asp?id=1571
https://www.yachtingmonthly.com/reviews/yacht-reviews/django-7-70

I did quite fancy one of these, but Mrs SS thinks it "looks like a spaceship"...

There's water ballast and there's water ballast...bilge keelers and bilge keelers?  :-\


BRe # 52 - "Two Sisters"  2016. Plank sprit, conventional jib. Asym spinn. Coppercoat. Honda 5. SOLD Nov 2022....
...From Oct 22.
BC 26 #1001. "Two Sisters 2", 2013. Alloy spars, Bermudan Sloop; fixed twin spade rudders, Beta diesel saildrive. Lift keel with lead bulb. Coppercoat. Cornwall UK.

MarkDarley

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Re: BC 23 Waterline length?
« Reply #4 on: 19 Dec 2022, 16:27 »
“Foxwhelp” News update on our performance in the 2022 Dartmouth Regatta with our SWYTC handicap;

We were solidly last in class!  In the final race, which was the longer legged Bay Race, we did have the satisfaction of at least staying in contention boat-on-boat for a while as we were able to carry the ballast for the windward legs and pump it out for the downwind legs……good dinghy crew on board in 15-18 knots true and reaching at over 7.5 knots with the spinnaker.

Racing a new boat gave us a valuable shorter learning curve. However I don’t think my Dittisham Sailing Club will be asking us to join them as the third boat in their team again!

Lesson learned; she is not race competitive under the SWYTC handicap.  Avoid it!

On the brighter side, we used this boat as design intended for two wonderful weeks on La Rance south of Saint Malo (one with my wife Suzanne and another in late October with my brother Charlie) and she performed brilliantly as a small fast cruiser.  She was also much admired by the French.
Mark Darley,
Wooden Swallow Bayraider 20 "Pippin" and Baycruiser 23, “Foxwhelp” in UK
GRP Swallow Bayraider 20 "Kelpie" in Northern California. Yes, I am a bit of a Swallow believer!

Sea Simon

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Re: BC 23 Waterline length? ...and SW RYA YTC
« Reply #5 on: 20 Dec 2022, 10:04 »
Oh dear...how disappointing!
On a new boat, with keen crew and in your home waters too.

Imho, the SWYTC displacement issue needs addressing. I had similar with my BRE (displacement eventually given as a reasonably realistic 750kg, originally proposed 450kg!)
I have made other posts on this subject.

Avoiding RYA SW YTC is not an option for many of us, especially those based in the SW UK.

BEWARE! The issue is also likely to start affecting others as This newish handicapping system speads, as the scheme is now managed by the RYA and RORC rather than Falmouth based clubs.

While there will always be "bandits" (there is more than one hereabouts, imho) this water ballast "policy" needs addressing if it is not to very negatively affect most Swallow boats.

That said, my new BC 26  also compares badly with the Django 7.7 mentioned above. Neither is water ballasted.
Under white sail, the Djanjo is slower than my BC26 (disproportionate influence of length?), despite being very close in size, weight, and my BC having considerably  less upwind sail area (-4.5m2). Both boats have diesel inboards.
The django bilge keel arrangement appears favourable (not difficult when apparently rated like a Westerly Centaur!), while my bulbed fin keel is comparatively heavily rated against, with no apparent  allowance for it being a far less efficient lifting keel, rather than fixed?

I think I'll  start a new thread?  >:(

Ps, I assume you towed to France? How was that experience ferry/admin wise?
BRe # 52 - "Two Sisters"  2016. Plank sprit, conventional jib. Asym spinn. Coppercoat. Honda 5. SOLD Nov 2022....
...From Oct 22.
BC 26 #1001. "Two Sisters 2", 2013. Alloy spars, Bermudan Sloop; fixed twin spade rudders, Beta diesel saildrive. Lift keel with lead bulb. Coppercoat. Cornwall UK.

MarkDarley

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Re: BC 23 Waterline length?
« Reply #6 on: 20 Dec 2022, 15:54 »
I did try to appeal to the RYA SW YTC but they were not interested in revisiting the rating.  They responded that all water ballasted boats are rated by them at their non ballasted displacement.   I suspect we will have to appeal as a class if we want to see a change.

Yes, I trailed Kelpie from home to the Plymouth Roscoff ferry, and then on to Saint Malo and Le Minihic where we launched her. It is far easier for me to go east on the French roads than along the south coast of England!

After a thoroughly enjoyable ten days of cruising inside La Rance and up to Dinan, we left her for three weeks at the excellent marina in Plouer Sur Rance and used the extremely good public slipway to haul her out.  All pleasantly inexpensive compared to the cost of UK marinas.
With only a few weeks of experience in her and still working out a few kinks, it seemed a little over ambitious to sail her across in late September/ October, but we are planning on The Scillies in 2023 and possibly on to Brittany from there if we get the weather window.

Customs etc was very simple.  They asked for ship’s papers and that was it.  As a bonus I managed to get rid of two sets of out of date flares at no cost by declaring them. On inspection they were confiscated!  I also declared knives, my galley knives, which they also inspected and required that they be left locked in the boat for the duration of the ferry passage. Either do not declare or do not take your multitool knife.  I have heard that they will confiscate them….

An interesting wrinkle was that on the return trip with my brother Charlie for the second round of cruising in late October we discovered that, due to a fuel strike,  we were unable to buy fuel for the 6hp outboard.  Luckily I had also packed the Epropulsion which served us well.  It did mean that we had to do a little extra planning to make sure that we were not caught motoring against the tide in confined waters with a head wind.  As a result we spent a night in a convenient hole in the mud just north of the lock gates at Le Lyvet, as strong southerlies were predicted for our short trip up the river to Dinan.  By entering the lock as soon as they opened in the morning, we were able to get to Dinan for coffee before the better part of a full gale blew in.  At that point we were snugly (and smugly) having an excellent lunch in a cafe in the harbour with the batteries charging on shore power.  Dinan is a lovely city which I highly recommend visiting, and well defended against the gale by the city walls!

Let’s start a new string to address the RYA SWYTC rating, which is where this post started!

Merry Christmas to all!

Mark Darley,
Wooden Swallow Bayraider 20 "Pippin" and Baycruiser 23, “Foxwhelp” in UK
GRP Swallow Bayraider 20 "Kelpie" in Northern California. Yes, I am a bit of a Swallow believer!