Sail slides BC26 with reference to Nick Orchard BC26 008, post of 07 Nov 2019

[Wim JP Welsink]

For the same reason(s) as Nick Orchard mentioned in his post of  07 Nov 2019, last winter all (standard A017) sail slides have been replaced  by A017S.
After replacement I do experience a lot more friction when hoisting and especially lowering the main. The longbattens push (sideways) the sail slide in the track causing friction.
I always have to go to the mast for lowering the main. Therefore I tried a top down line when lowering the main. However this creates a bundle of  sail halfway the mast not able to pass the tensioned lazy jacks. I also apply Harken's McLube.
I have checked the dimensions of (mine) A017S slides and the replaced A017 slides and compared the results with the data on the Bainbridge website. I have used a caliber.
A017 (fully plastic/nylon)
•   diameter measured 7,8-8,0 mm; website Bainbridge  9 mm
•   waist/neck measured 2,9 mm; website Bainbridge 3 mm
A017S (with stainless steel)
•   diameter measured 9,0 mm, website Bainbridge 8mm
•   waist/neck measured 3,6-3,9 mm; website Bainbridge 2,5mm
According to Bainbridge the A017S should have a smaller diameter and waist/neck compared to the A017 but in my reality it is the other way around.
Do others have the same experience with increased friction after replacement by A017S sail slides?
Are there suggestions for improvement?
Do some manage to lower the main and reside at the helm/cockpit?

Wim JP Welsink, from the Netherlands
BC26 015 Joy
 

[AndyB]

If the slug slides are a different measurement to the specifications then I would go back to the retailer selling them and ask for replacements which are correct. Having said that I personally would not replace nylon with stainless steel in case the  carbon track became damaged from higher stresses of a stainless steel fitting. However I have no experience of this and Nick's seemed okay last time I was out with him.

It seems your real issue is with the sail coming down. I have had mine for about a year now but due to illness never really sailed it apart from day sailing but have made changes. I am not sure that using lazy jacks as a topping lift works especially the way Swallow Yachts have rigged it. The front lazy jack pair seem to take the strain more than the rear. So when the sail is being dropped the lazy jacks are very close together and the sail does not drop or drops in a mess. Also a lot of effort is required to raise the boom as the strain is taken on the front pair. Mechanically this is a disaster.  A topping lift/vang is the real answer.....

I have changed this so that the rear pair take all the strain and the front pair are loose ( see picture). This has the benefit of being able to raise the boom by hand ( not use a winch) and also allows a much larger gap for the main part of the sail to drop into. I have found it drops to around 0.5 m to 1m above the boom but falls neatly so a trip to the front is quick and easy. If you combine this with a downhaul then you should not need to go to the mast.

I have not put in a downhaul at the moment as I have used all the blocks up with an added outhaul and a cunningham.  The outhaul is so that I can adjust the depth of the sail from the cockpit. I often change this as the wind strength changes. I have added a cunningham to the tack and brought it back to the cockpit. The older BC26's do not have a good position for the pulley for the main halyard and it breaks. To resolve this I have released the tack and can raise the main without a winch apart from the last 2 cm. I then tension the sail using the cunningham. This tensions more at the bottom/middle of the sail rather than at the top which is preferable. But the main reason is to save the pulley. However I have found the sail drops easier with this mechanism but no idea why.

As I sail on my own my next 'improvement' will be to install a downhaul.

[Keith P]

Hi Wim,

I agree with Andy regarding the use of steel slider replacements.

I have had too many issues with dropping the sails resulting in me having to leave the cockpit, go on deck and pull the main down. I will say this difficulty is due to my sails being new and stiff, they main is getting easier the more we sail.

To solve this problem I have installed a topping lift, which now allows the lazy jacks to do the job they are meant to do. but I still found problems with the top batten getting caught in the Lazy Jacks when dropping the main, so I now sail with a shock cord attached to the lowers and the top carabiner on the Lazy Jacks which creates a big gap for the main to fall into.

The topping lift will also double as a backup main halyard and for attaching to the keel should I need to raise it if stuck. This idea developed from the advice Nick had when he suffered from a stuck Keel.

I have also installed a downhaul for the main which has proved really useful and works well in getting the sail down but my main reason was that it is used to keep the main in place stopping it "blowing out" when it's blowing a fair bit.

To install both the downhaul and topping lift i also installed two Cam cleats ( one on Port and Stb ) on to the Coach house roof using one for the kicker and the other for the downhaul.

[Nick Orchard]

Hi Wim - very good to hear from you, now we know where BC26 015 lives!

Sorry to hear that you're having trouble with the mainsail slides, and I'm puzzled by your finding that the steel necked slides are slightly larger than the plastic ones. My recollection is that when I got the new steel ones they were slightly smaller than the plastic, as per spec. I'll have to measure them again next time I go down to the boat. My experience is that when the slides are new with a bit of Sailkote/Maclube on them, in the harbour with no wind, the main drops like a stone straight down onto the boom in about 2 seconds! Over time the Sailkote does build up a bit and gets slightly sticky, and if there's a breeze blowing when you drop the main, then it doesn't take much for something to catch or jam slightly somewhere. I usually find that raising the sail a little when it sticks in combination with pulling the downhaul usually gets it down from the cockpit, but there are still times when I have to go to the mast to persuade it to come down.

I've also modified my lazy jacks, as I found it very difficult to lift the boom with the original layout. I now only have the lines running to the 3 aftmost points on the boom. The idea is to get the line to the back end of the boom running as straight as possible. With a line attached near the gooseneck the pull on the main line is mostly trying to lift the gooseneck end of the boom, so obviously rather difficult.  With the new arrangement I find it very easy to lift the  back end of the boom by hand and take in the slack on the lazy jacks line. You don't need the mast end lines to stop the sail falling off the boom because the sail is held up by the slides in the mast track, and this arrangement also has fewer lines to get in the way when raising the sail. There is one downside to this however, which is that when you drop the boom before lowering the mast there is more tendency for the boom to want to swing forwards. This needs a bit of controlling but is still easily manageble, and I'm very happy with the system now.

Nick

[Wim JP Welsink]

Andy, Keith and Nick, thanks for your input.

Regarding the size of the slides:
In the paperwork for ordering and supplying by the dutch Bainbridge distributor the A017S has been noted. However; the slides have no type marking. On the Bainbridge website you can see a type marking on the sail slide . Nor the sailmaker neither me have checked dimensions. The replaced 11 sail slides stack exactly in the cassette part of the boom so there was no extra warning signal for me. But now I have measured a length of 30mm. The sailmaker confirms my findings and is checking now some things with Bainbridge, I have no answer yet.

•   Carbon or aluminium masttrack?:
Andy is talking about a “carbon” masttrack. My masttrack is aluminium black coated/anodised with an open  groove of  4,1 mm.

•   Tensioned Lazy jacks:
I did consider a separate craneline (but where to fit an extra block at the mast?) so I could slack the lazy lines in order to widen the sack; and spread the lazy jacks on the spreaders about 15 cm to the end of the stainless steel support of the spreaders. @ Keith, at what position and how did you fixed an extra block? The solution of Nick and Andy sounds KISS and I will implement their ideas tot start with. By the way, I use the main halyard as a crane line after lowering the mainsail. The halyard is left at the top of the mainsail and then routed aft to the boom there a knot at a shackle and then up to the top of the mast.

•   Outhaul and Cunningham:
To operate the outhaul line routed on the boom is quite a challenge for me during sailing. Thanks  Andy for your idea to bring this line to the coachroof. Regarding your remarks about the Cunningham and the positive effect on lowering the main: could it be by using the Cunningham it creates stretch in the luff which you can’t/dare not create with the main halyard. You get this energy in return when relaxing the main halyard.



I was rather hopeless with the present situation so I have looked around for another system. For example a new track system from Tides marine with  25mm length stainless steel polished sail slides. That will be quite an adventure to remove the existing track and fit a new track and quite an investment.

With correct sail slides and applying your ideas Nick and Andy, I will try next season before entering in an adventure. Thanks all three for your input.

Wim

[AndyB]

I thought I should explain why I left 4 lines on the lazy jacks. By the way for me it makes no difference the metal of the track it is the design parameters set by the builder that need to be taken into account and I would ask Swallow Yachts for an opinion.

Lazy Jacks.
Matt was very proud ( and so he should be) of his mechanism for lowering the mast especially the way the boom comes off. This does rely on the lazy jacks being equally tensioned ( level drop of the boom). However this stops the sail easily dropping down. What you do depends on how often you take the mast down or remove the boom. I have left the 2 front ones on so that I can temporarily tie them tighter ( shorten them) before I remove the boom which I anticipate doing once a  year when the boat comes out of the water and I examine the top of the mast for wear etc. This aligns with Matt's original design. However Nick is right with them not being there the sail drops better and he copes with the lack of front lazy jacks when he drops the boom. I guess it depends how frequently you drop the boom.

I hope you find a good solution and please do let us all know.

[Nick Orchard]

Hi Wim - I've checked my A017S dimensions and they are as I remembered, i.e. slightly smaller than the A017 plastic slides. Measured with a digital caliper the bulb end diameter is 8.1mm (8.9 for A017), waist is 2.6mm (2.85 for A017), minimum waist height is 5.2mm (5.9 A017) and overall length is 27.1mm (27.7mm A017). They do have the 'A017S' ID on them but it's not obvious as it's on the edge of the upper neck platform instead of in a recess on the bulb as it is on the A017, and it has 'Bainbridge' on the other side, so you should be able to check that you've been supplied with the correct slides.

I think I may have mentioned previously that the steel slides aren't indestructible either as I've managed to bend the one at the top batten. I've replaced this one with a slide that is sold as a dinghy mainsail outhaul boom slide which has the same diameter bulb but a thicker stainless steel bail, and it's also longer (50mm) (Bainbridge A032). Although I do appreciate the risk of transferring potential damage to the track/mast instead of the slide when overloading, this slide is only half the height of the A017S so the leverage on the track is also halved, so hopefully actually less likely to cause trouble.