Author Topic: Advice for BC21 owner  (Read 1442 times)

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Nigel Baker

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Advice for BC21 owner
« on: 31 May 2024, 01:08 »
I have ordered a BC 21, sail no 6, which should be completed towards the end of June. I would be grateful if members, especially owners of BREs, could give me tips on a few issues.
1/ Which marine insurer would you recommend? 2/ The boat will come with a Yamaha 6hp outboard. I guess it will fit into the BC21 in a similar way to how it fits into a BRE. Is there an outboard lock you would recommend? 3/ The BC21 has an anchor locker on the foredeck which will fit a 6kg Lewmar Delta, Lewmar Epsilom or a Spade. I have ruled out the Spade on the grounds of cost. Do owners believe the Epsilom is sufficiently good enough to warrant the fact that it is twice the price of the Delta? The boat will be kept and sailed around the Fal estuary which many owners will be familiar with through the annual Raids. 4/ What length and size of warp and chain would you recommend? 5/ What size fenders would BRE owners recommend buying, and would three be the right number to have?
Any other tips would be gratefully received.

Graham W

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Re: Advice for BC21 owner
« Reply #1 on: 31 May 2024, 07:49 »
Nigel,

Congratulations on your new boat.

1.  I use Noble Marine for insurance but see https://www.swallowyachtsassociation.org/smf/index.php/topic,3314.0.html
2.  The Yamaha 6hp seems to be the yard’s standard larger outboard for its 20ft models.  This is probably going to be controversial but having used one on a BRe, I would go for something else, for four reasons:  it doesn’t do reverse very well; the gear lever is down the side instead of on the front; the exhaust is above rather than through the prop; and most importantly, because of the engine design it’s not possible to have one with a Saildrive-type propeller best suited to displacement boats like ours.  The Motor Loc Atlantic is an excellent outboard lock.
3.  If you are going to use your anchor a lot and are limited to just one, you should get the best that you can.  Of the three that you mention this would be (according to prolific expert anchor tester Panope) a galvanised Spade for about £300.
4.  The anchor rode depends on whether you intend to sail in places other than the Fal area, with deeper water. This article has many useful recommendations https://jimmygreen.com/1002-anchoring.
5.  If you have to raft up (not unknown in the Fal!) you may need four or more fenders, not three.  I’d recommend four 45cm cylindricals with maybe a couple of low freeboard fenders and a flat fender as well.
Graham
Gunter-rigged GRP BR20 #59 Turaco III

Nigel Baker

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Re: Advice for BC21 owner
« Reply #2 on: 31 May 2024, 10:44 »
Graham,
Many thanks for all your advice. The Jimmy Green website has just taken up time which I probably could not afford! It is very comprehensive. On the BC21 there is a foredeck anchor locker, but it is unlined. Do you know what say BC23 members use to stop their anchor scratching the inside of the locker? A bit of old carpet springs to mind but there must be a better solution.
You raise some interesting points about the Yamaha 6. It may now be too late to change but what alternatives would you recommend?
Thanks, Nigel

Graham W

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Re: Advice for BC21 owner
« Reply #3 on: 31 May 2024, 12:01 »
For lining the anchor locker, I’d avoid carpet as it will probably begin to smell after a bit.  A bit of old lino, a rubber bathmat or a split old car inner tube, if such things exist any more?  You can buy all kinds of plastic and neoprene sheeting on eBay.

I used to have a Mariner 6hp with a Saildrive-type prop before I turned electric.  It had none of the Yamaha’s disadvantages but unlike the Yamaha, you had to be careful how you laid it down on its side.  I think Mercury and possibly Tohatsu 6hp outboards are very similar to the Mariner and I see that Tohatsu are now saying that you can lay their engines down whichever way too. 

The Saildrive prop made an appreciable difference to the Mariner’s revs, noise and perhaps even fuel consumption.  Standard props are designed to get you up on a plane rather than providing low rev torque - unhelpful on a displacement boat.  I had to buy a short shaft outboard with a standard prop and then replace the latter with a Saildrive prop, keeping the original one for emergencies.

As the Mariner had an integral fuel tank as well as an external one, it was quite tall and a bit of a squeeze under my BR20’s tiller.  I had to modify the tiller uphaul and downhaul arrangements to prevent them from fouling the top of the outboard.  I don’t know how this compares to the Yamaha, which seemed to fit under the BRe tiller without any bother.  I notice that the Tohatsu 6hp has a version without an integral tank but don’t know how much this reduces its cowling height, if at all.
Graham
Gunter-rigged GRP BR20 #59 Turaco III

Sea Simon

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Re: Advice for BC21 owner
« Reply #4 on: 31 May 2024, 14:14 »
Hi Nigel,

Following GWs lead.

1. Insurance. I too used Noble for both my BRe insurance, and my racing dinghies. They were always excellent and paid several claims without petty quibbling! They seemingly weren't interested in my "small big boat" BC26, and I moved to Haven Knox Johnson on the recommendation of a pal. So far, so good...

2. Outboard.  Firstly, determine what dealers are available locally, it's a right pita to take outboards away to a remote dealer for winter services (essential to maintain extended warranty  cover). Hereabouts it's  Honda, no Yamaha dealer (maybe Curnows do them in Falmouth?).  I was very pleased with my Honda. I'd always get the saildrive prop (as GW says)  and maybe the charge coil too, pre delivery. Much cheaper. That said, you're probably better off with high quality solar than a charge coil? ...imho...
Fwiw, I hated my Tohatsu 5! New, but SO unreliable (fuel issues), then it trashed it's gearbox, for no apparent reason. But that was a last-gen machine, maybe they've improved?

Motorlocs are excellent. I've  had several. The Atlantic, and the smaller slot lock on my tenders Honda 2.3. That has lived on the beach for over 5 years, and I've still got my outboard...and the loc still works too. Just bought another Atlantic for my new EProp tender motor.

3.Anchors. I still have both a 6kg Rocna and a 6kg Lewmar Delta here, for sale. You are welcome to take either/both to Falmouth to try for fit in your new boat.
The Rocna is by far the better anchor, imho. Perhaps too much advice out there? Jimmy green's pages are very good.

Sorry can't remember exactly what I had on my BRe... but I  limit my choice to the weight of what I can pull up, by hand! On the BC26 that's  a 10kg Rocna, 10m of 8mm chain, and 50m of 14mm 3 strand polyester (because I haven't learnt to splice octoplait!) This is all perhaps just slightly oversize for my 26, but I now overnight with my grandson. The important/transferrable detail, perhaps, is that the big Rocna won't  fit in my bow locker (nor do I want all that weight in the extreme bow. My lightweight Fortress FX7 kedge/beach day-hook lives there. The cruising Bower lives in a trug, in a cockpit locker.
Hereabouts spring tides give a max range of appx 6m, so you'll  be anchoring in perhaps 8m or so, probably less?

I made a small wood "scabbard" to fit over the brutally sharp tip of the Rocna!
Best use no carpet. I've  seen lightweight racing dinghies with osmosis from sitting on wet carpet overwinter. I like those rubber honeycomb door mats.

To me another critical  point is to always use best quality, lifting rated, green pin shackles or similar. NEVER chinesium tat off ebay! Available more cheaply from lifting gear suppliers than chandlers.
Then MOUSE THEM! Astonishing how many yots in my overwintering yard drop their anchors onto the yard, only to reveal unsecured shackles!

4. Fenders...I believe you can probably never have too many...just how much stowage room have you? On the BRe, I used to keep extras in the aft buoyancy tanks.

Enjoy the new boat, hope to see it about here this summer?
BRe # 52 - "Two Sisters"  2016. Plank sprit, conventional jib. Asym spinn. Coppercoat. Honda 5. SOLD Nov 2022....
...From Oct 22.
BC 26 #1001. "Two Sisters 2", 2013. Alloy spars, Bermudan Sloop; fixed twin spade rudders, Beta diesel saildrive. Lift keel with lead bulb. Coppercoat. Cornwall UK.

Nigel Baker

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Re: Advice for BC21 owner
« Reply #5 on: 02 Jun 2024, 20:36 »
Hi Simon, Thank you as ever for the good advice.
 1/ With my Crabber I used Curtis Marine in Plymouth but they have now been taken over by Haven Knox Johnson, so I will gather a few quotations. 2/ I have two commercial spec Honda mowers and two large Honda strimmers/brush cutters, all 4 stroke and superb but when I had Shrimpers the outboards were always Yamahas from Robin Curnow who is not far away. Robin died last November aged 86, I think he was still going into the 'shop' until close to his death. But his firm is still going strong and I will talk to them about a different prop. 3/ The Motorloc sounds a good investment. 4/ With my Crabber 22 I had a heavier CQR type anchor but got away with 5m of chain and 15m of octoplait, and never went far enough to anchor in deep water! Thank you for the anchor offer, I may get back to you. 5/ I have always been a great fan of Monel seizing wire. For some reason I have had two spools for years, and am only part way through the first spool. 6/ I will buy three fenders and see how much storage spave their actually is. All the best, Nigel

Sea Simon

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Re: Advice for BC21 owner
« Reply #6 on: 03 Jun 2024, 09:39 »
+1 for the Monel seizing wire.
I "liberated" a large coil from a salvage job years ago...

I didn't realise Haven KJ had absorbed Curtis Marine, but had heard about Robin Curnow.

Personally (and in agreement with the various online anchor reviewers/testers) I find the latest UHHP anchors far superior to my old CQR, which is now relegated to a garden ornament...

Whereabouts in Falmouth will you be based?
BRe # 52 - "Two Sisters"  2016. Plank sprit, conventional jib. Asym spinn. Coppercoat. Honda 5. SOLD Nov 2022....
...From Oct 22.
BC 26 #1001. "Two Sisters 2", 2013. Alloy spars, Bermudan Sloop; fixed twin spade rudders, Beta diesel saildrive. Lift keel with lead bulb. Coppercoat. Cornwall UK.

Nigel Baker

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Re: Advice for BC21 owner
« Reply #7 on: 05 Jun 2024, 23:52 »
Coombe Creek, where I was born! Indeed my mother's family, the Gunns, built several of the houses, the oldest one being built in the 1740s. I regard myself as a bit of a local.

Sea Simon

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Re: Advice for BC21 owner. Coombe Creek.
« Reply #8 on: 07 Jun 2024, 10:36 »
Despite being relatively  "local", confess I  had to seach out Coombe Creek Falmouth (there being so many "COOMBEs" hereabouts  ;)

Also confess that I've  never bothered to go up your particular creek, despite having visited, and  overnighted in that part if the river many times!
"Off the beaten track"...another "hidden gem" I suspect, and for your communities benefit long may it stay that way!
Does that creek dry completely?

I was down in Falmouth again this week watching the Richard Mille classic yacht event, highly recommended spectating. Amazing yachts (including Atlantic and Mariquita), racing hard at at very close quarters (too close sometimes,  see screen grab from my vid. This is not zoomed, but blurred from me desperately deploying all 14 HP to get well clear...those things sail faster than it looks!).

Last month while also down that way, I foolishly used a visitors mooring at St Mawes, £22/N. Was then told that the water taxi finishes at 17.30, and if I want to land by tender, that would be an additional £5!
Kids DFL  Noisily partying on the adjacent beach until late.

This week I anchored up the river, near Percuil. Outside St Mawes harbour limits. Beautifully peaceful...and free...
imho...St Mawes folk don't need any more money, especially mine...clearly they already have plenty ;)
Encouraging the "right sort" of visitors  possibly?
BRe # 52 - "Two Sisters"  2016. Plank sprit, conventional jib. Asym spinn. Coppercoat. Honda 5. SOLD Nov 2022....
...From Oct 22.
BC 26 #1001. "Two Sisters 2", 2013. Alloy spars, Bermudan Sloop; fixed twin spade rudders, Beta diesel saildrive. Lift keel with lead bulb. Coppercoat. Cornwall UK.

Nigel Baker

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Re: Advice for BC21 owner
« Reply #9 on: 07 Jun 2024, 15:44 »
Coombe is tidal. Almost all the southern shore is part of the NT Trelissick Estate and almost all the other shore is part of Lord Falmouth's Tregothnan Estate. Nothing has been built since 1935, it is utterly unspoiled and given its ownership is likely to remain so. The area is famous for its Kea plums which make superb jam, and we have two acres of orchards. They leave little time for boating. Coombe was once a destination for the old pleasure boats, to see the blossom in May and the plums in September. Certainly worth a visit, but keep an eye on your echo sounder!

Sea Simon

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Re: Advice for BC21 owner
« Reply #10 on: 08 Jun 2024, 10:48 »
Really beautiful area you are based.
Many years ago, I used to survey the reefer/fruit boats and LP/N gas tankers  overwintering up there in King Harry's  Reach.

Coombe. Bottom? Soft mud? Clean n clear? ( I can dry out if needed, but need to be careful. Saildrive intakes not compatible  with soft mud, although I've provided a backup system).

My once favourite quiet spots to anchor are becoming ever busier, so I'm increasingly pushing into shallower areas...see above re St Mawes/Percuil.  I guess many ordinary  folk are getting priced out?

Hereabouts, although an AONB, and land opposite  across the river mostly owned by National Trust,  you sometimes wouldn't  believe that's what it is. Hideous new developments (we're fast becoming a "poor man's" - relatively -  version of Port Navas creek, sad to say) made worse by the modern fad for flood and "accent" lighting it all at night. Big new development at the end of my lane had a Lighting Consultant submit lighting plans with the building application. It all looks like some sort of Teneriefe holiday complex at night.

There's much to be said for a "benevolent dictator " sort of local Lord/Laird...imho...seems to at least limit the more money grubbing short term "users"?

Golant was once similarly a destination to view from the river the apple blossom in the extensive orchards...pretty much all gone now.

A few intrepid yotties still manage to evade the Fowey HM anchoring fees up here ;) still quite a bit of clean/clear sand, and an excellent "proper pub"!
BRe # 52 - "Two Sisters"  2016. Plank sprit, conventional jib. Asym spinn. Coppercoat. Honda 5. SOLD Nov 2022....
...From Oct 22.
BC 26 #1001. "Two Sisters 2", 2013. Alloy spars, Bermudan Sloop; fixed twin spade rudders, Beta diesel saildrive. Lift keel with lead bulb. Coppercoat. Cornwall UK.

Nigel Baker

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Re: Advice for BC21 owner
« Reply #11 on: 13 Jun 2024, 16:38 »
Interesting you were involved in surveying the ships laid up. During the late 50s and early 60s my ex-RNR father had a role supervising the BP tankers laid up and I remember as a boy clambering around them. Lots of oyster punts were hired out to the ships, some locals also acted as nightwatchmen on the ships. Others chaps helped to lay them up. Many of the punts were also painted with whatever paint was 'available' from the ships, The ships played quite a role in the local economy, but were visually unattractive and ruined the river for sailing.

You might be interested in this: https://www.keaparishcouncil.org.uk/history/peeps-into-the-past-a-history-of-coombe-in-photos/ I wrote it a few years ago and need to update it, and include something on the ships.

The mud is soft but at speed you can walk across it, as I did yesterday when going out to check an outhaul. The bottom is clean, I can think of no nasties to worry about, and out of the main channel the mud is quite flat. Do you know the lovely area for anchoring at the mouth of the Ruan river just past the ruins of what was once a Tregothnan boathouse? It is too close to home to overnight but it is a delightful spot and probably our favourite place to drop anchor.




Sea Simon

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Re: Advice for BC21 owner
« Reply #12 on: 14 Jun 2024, 09:54 »
Yes, most memorable, for me, were Methane Princess/Progress so it would be early/mid 90s? I worked for what then was the DoT at Falmouth for 10 years.

Thanks for that fascinating history. Many parrallels here, we even have a Reading Room! Kea is without doubt better preserved and prettier. Our proximity to both over-hyped Fowey (all those would-be, but can't afford Salcombe types), and what was effectively the end of the dualled main road at Bodmin has not been beneficial for our community...imho... ;)

Most recently (last year)  I've anchored just up from what was  Newmans. Many trips thereabouts over the years, so well aware of the "interaction" of the ships with the community!  ;)   ;D
What's happening at Newmans these days? It looks all but abandoned?

Can you still walk up to the pub at Philleigh, from the footpath on the S shore of Ruan Creek, opposite Penkevel? Fancy doing that, as have not done for many, many years.

Can you advise best way, if indeed possible, to visit King's Arms at Ruan L, by dinghy?

I will have a look around Coombe creek as well, next time. Any low water photos would be very welcome.
I think I've  spotted your orchards on GEarth?
BRe # 52 - "Two Sisters"  2016. Plank sprit, conventional jib. Asym spinn. Coppercoat. Honda 5. SOLD Nov 2022....
...From Oct 22.
BC 26 #1001. "Two Sisters 2", 2013. Alloy spars, Bermudan Sloop; fixed twin spade rudders, Beta diesel saildrive. Lift keel with lead bulb. Coppercoat. Cornwall UK.

Nigel Baker

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Re: Advice for BC21 owner
« Reply #13 on: 14 Jun 2024, 19:15 »
Newman's, or Smugglers as it is now generally called, had a tenant who also acted as Lord Falmouth's boatman looking after his large Targa. But rumour has it he left to take up a harbourmaster's job somewhere in Cornwall. The cottage had been empty all winter whilst a tenant is sought, said to be asking £2.5k a month. It is a sad sight given how lively it once was.
I know the path you mention up to Philleigh though I have never walked all the way up to the pub. Sadly the Roseland Inn closed last year and as far as I am aware has yet to reopen.
I occasionally journey up to the King's Head at Ruan, and many years back got up there in my Drascombe Lugger. I will give you details at some stage though Google earth shows where the channel lies. I will also post some photos of Coombe Creek at low water, but will have to wait a while as the present neaps do not dry the creek.

Sea Simon

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Re: Advice for BC21 owner
« Reply #14 on: 15 Jun 2024, 17:45 »
Sorry to hear the philleigh pub is closed, lovely place.

Newmans/Smugglers looked quite forlorn last year, not been up there yet this year. A tenantless cold wet winter won't have helped an old cottage. Expensive, in several ways?

Was in Scilly last week. "The Bishop and Wolf" (pub on the main drag in Huw Town) has closed. That was one of my favourites,  as was perhaps something slightly less tourist-trappy...
£24 for a crab sandwich in the St Austell brewery pub down the way!
Scilly moorings cheaper than  St Mawes, allowing for their bleddy dinghy "surcharge"  >:(
Lots of French yachts (some really nice boats). Perhaps they're getting an easier border control admin burden than my pal reported receiving when arriving by yacht in Normandy recently?

Polperro has pulled out 2 of its 6 visitors  moorings. Meaning 4 trot moorings now, not 6.

Penzance also seem to have reduced the number of their outside buoys for visitors?

Any info you can supply re Fal area very gratefully received.

 Happy to return the favour re the Fowey if needed. Still Plenty of MT moorings hereabouts...mid June!
BRe # 52 - "Two Sisters"  2016. Plank sprit, conventional jib. Asym spinn. Coppercoat. Honda 5. SOLD Nov 2022....
...From Oct 22.
BC 26 #1001. "Two Sisters 2", 2013. Alloy spars, Bermudan Sloop; fixed twin spade rudders, Beta diesel saildrive. Lift keel with lead bulb. Coppercoat. Cornwall UK.