Paint - enough to drive you potty

[Michael Rogers]

A bit of thinking ahead here, because I haven't even started my (second) build. However, whiling away the time until my kit is ready....

Two questions (I think it's two) - 1) does anyone have experience of two-pot finishes they wouldn't mind sharing? I know they are more expensive, and I believe can be tricky to apply. For my present boat I used International Toplac, with appropriate primer and undercoat. It went on beautifully, has lasted well in most respects, and is easy to touch up. The latter is a good thing, because its abrasion resistance seems to be negligible, and normal/unavoidable contact with trailer parts, slipway surfaces, innocuous-looking pebbles etc leaves marks or scrapes. It would be worth a lot of effort in applying, and I could probably save some beer money to pay for, a more robust finish from this point of view.

2) Googling away re paints, I came across Jotun Marine. A new name to me. Does anyone know anything about them? ... used their paint?? A Norwegian company, they claim to be big internationally. Several things impressed me about the website. They give lots of easily accessed and coherent information, in marked contrast to other leading makes. They actually show you their range of colours (again in contrast...), which seems to be much bigger than the competition. And their paints are relatively remarkably cheap. Provided the quality is comparable, they would be an attractive proposition.

[Steve Joyce]

Looking at paint for my Storm 15 in build,  going for 2 pack international paint would be fairly expensive particularly if you want the top panel in another colour. 

Enamels are quite a bit cheaper,  but not as durable. I have used these on a canal boat.  Ok I won't be hitting any locks in "Robin" my soon to be completed (I hope) Storm 15,  and it won't rust, as long as I have pulled out all of the plain steel screws,  but I think a 2 pack would be better.

I have bit the bullet and ordered some Jotun paint.  I have gone for a litre of hardtop HB (satin finish) for the decks/insides,  and hardtop flex, 1Lt white and 1Lt sapphire blue for the outside.  The penguard HB primer is suitable for both (2.5L). As well as splashing out on a disposable repirator,  came to about £150. 
SML marine paints were very helpful in confirming that this was the best combination and delivered the following day (free).

I will let you know how I get on.

[Clem Freeman]

Will be interested to know how you get on. I'll be needing paint soon but was thinking of going with standard paints rather than 2pk. I'm concerned about the fumes from 2pk and also wastage, by mixing twice as much as I need and having to throw it away or not mixing quite enough. Could be I just worry to much.

[Michael Rogers]

Obviously, given my starter for this thread, i'll be interested in your progress too, Steve: particularly as you have chosen the paints I am minded to use, except I shall only use one outside hull colour, and I haven't decided on that yet. For a combination of reasons, I am lagging a bit behind with my build, and I won't be painting before October at the earliest. I'll have to set myself up to be painting indoors in the autumn/winter (which means heating bills etc, not to mention ventilation issues).

One comment/query - I had thought about adding non-slip granules to the paint for the decks and cockpit sole. Claus Riepe, somewhere else in this forum, had commented on how slippery the decks of his BR can become. Anyone any comments on this?

When you 'report back', Steve, could you deal with the fumes issue in your experience, and the effectiveness (or otherwise) of the respirator you've bought.

I hope it goes well. Andrew Denman, on the 'GRP or Ply?' thread, had some cunning-sounding professional tips on improving the final finish. You've probably seen them.

[Julian Swindell]

Re the non-slip granules. I have used International non-slip additive on my cabin top and side decks and it works very well. Not so much granules more like very fine sand, and surprisingly cheap for once. I just use ordinary one coat Toplac paint, which is what the yard used originally. It seems perfectly durable and very easy to touch up. I usually give it a new coat each winter, and you can often get the paint cheaply at a boat jumble. Bent tins don't sell for full price, but the paint is still the same colour inside.

The non-slip additive gives a slightly rough surface which is much better than the plain paint finish for grip underfoot, without being rough on bare knees or feet. It is virtually invisible except under very close inspection. I also followed the yard's original scheme of mixing matting agent 50/50 with the ivory superstucture paint. This gives a very nice eggshell finish to the cabin, which contrasts nicely with the hull's high gloss and also looks much less plasticky.

Regarding worries about scratching pristine gelcoats. The best course of action is to go out and scratch it and then stop worrying about it and enjoy your sailing! All boats that are sailed are scratched and scraped.

[Michael Rogers]

This is probably not going to be a very helpful tack (a purely unintentional metaphor which I'm quite pleased with) for this topic because choice of colours is very subjective and personal. Having said which.....

1) Is there any rationale to the widespread, almost universal use of white paint for decks and 'insides' of small sailing craft? And is there an 'acceptable' alternative?

2) Is white a practicable main colour for the outside of the hull, in terms of 'showing the dirt' etc?

3) Are there any practical issues (eg getting hot, or not, in the sun) in the choice between light and dark colours for the hull?

4) I won't need antifouling on my trailer/sailer dinghy but, particularly if I choose a lightish main hull colour, might it be both practical and smart to use a dark colour as faux antifouling (scrapes etc not showing so much)? I like a boat to look workmanlike rather than 'posh'.

5) How on earth do you mark out a waterline on a boat? I've often wondered but have assumed there is an obvious way (stupid), and haven't liked to ask because I have no idea!

In case I give the impression that an unknown rich benefactor has left me a fortune, I would just add that I'm aware of the cost implications of a variegated colour scheme, the cost of paint being what it is and the absence of small tins being a universal ploy to get us to have to buy more than we need.

(SP Cadenza + T12 in build)

[Clem Freeman]

Regarding marking out the waterline, I can think of 2 options.
1) Put it in water and draw round with a waterproof marker.
2) Use one of the laser levels that spin and then mark from that.

[gerald turner]

Re the non-slip granules. I have used International non-slip additive on my cabin top and side decks and it works very well. Not so much granules more like very fine sand, and surprisingly cheap for once. I just use ordinary one coat Toplac paint, which is what the yard used originally. It seems perfectly durable and very easy to touch up. I usually give it a new coat each winter, and you can often get the paint cheaply at a boat jumble. Bent tins don't sell for full price, but the paint is still the same colour inside.

The non-slip additive gives a slightly rough surface which is much better than the plain paint finish for grip underfoot, without being rough on bare knees or feet. It is virtually invisible except under very close inspection. I also followed the yard's original scheme of mixing matting agent 50/50 with the ivory superstucture paint. This gives a very nice eggshell finish to the cabin, which contrasts nicely with the hull's high gloss and also looks much less plasticky.

Regarding worries about scratching pristine gelcoats. The best course of action is to go out and scratch it and then stop worrying about it and enjoy your sailing! All boats that are sailed are scratched and scraped.

I have heard of Sugar being added to paint to give anti slip properties, not tried it myself but it may work!
Best to test theory on a cheap pot of paint I think first.

Personaly ,I used Exterior masonary paint on the decks of one of my boats,a perfect colour match for the cabin sides.

[Steve Joyce]

Just painted the inside of my Storm15 with Jotun Penguard HB as a primer.

Initial appearance is deceptive.  The main component is very runny,  and hardener about the same as epoxy.  Thinking this would spread out quite well I mixed up 375ml. However although it is fairly cold "up north",  it gelled almost immediately when brushing which initially made a right mess. Pity I started on the fore deck.

The mixture also tends to dissolve foam paint brushes.  They don't disintegrate but go very floppy. Had to trash one of my good paint brushes as an emergency measure.

Although the instructions say not to use a roller for first coat,  I found that doing about 2 sq ft with roller then finishing off with the foam brush was the way to go,  giving a nice smooth finish.  Ended up using another 375ml to finish the first coat.

You will a respirator,  even if painting outdoors at the main paint produces very strong fumes.  The one from SML marine paints worked just fine. This is a 3M one and have seen the same elsewhere for over £25 (theirs is £11.95).

I will let you know how the top coats go.

[Julian Swindell]

I feel I'm letting the side down here. I'm building a little plywood dinghy (not a Swallow Boat) and I've just painted most of it with Dulux Weathershield. Seems to have gone on very easily and you can wash the brush out with water...

Not entirely naive (but largely). I fitted a wooden bracket to the outisde of the washboards on my BayCruiser to hold GPS and compass. For want of any other paint I gave the wood two coats of said Dulux. I have just packed the boat up, ready for haul out, and I honestly couldn't see any difference between the dulux finish and the Toplac on the rest of the topsides after six months on a swinging mooring in Poole Harbour. I am seriously tempted just to use Dulux to overcoat the topsides over the winter. It will save me a fotune in ruined paintbrushes, if nothing else. Has anyone else used ordinary household paint on their boat?

[Johan Ellingsen]

No,but I once inherited,from my mother-in-law,a rusty VW Beetle,-54 model.
We painted this bright blue with the sort of paint you use in the kitchen.This lasted perfectly well(in our climate,too!)for four years,until the car died of old age.

[Michael Rogers]

Clem

Displaying my ignorance, what are 'laser levels that spin'? My look at such as Screwfix doesn't tell me. I see prices for laser levellers are, so to speak, various; these aren't the £500+ jobs, are they?

I put my waterline question to the UK HBBR forum (readily accessible) as well, and got an interesting reply involving nails and string and things, which I think I understand and might try as and when (not there yet) - unless 'spinning lasers' are a reasonable price and otherwise useful (acquiring tools for a particular boat-build application is often beguiling, but does add up: lets have a tool jumble).

[Clem Freeman]

Think I mislead you with the spin. I've had a look and the ones I was thinking about and they are the laser levels that draw a line (think they use some sort of spinning mirror in them), they are the expensive ones though. Don't see why you couldn't use the cheaper rotary ones but you would have to mark the level, rotate the laser mark again etc. Might be able to hire one for a day which would work out cheaper.

[Steve Joyce]

I would say that it's your boat and you can use what you like on it. 
Maybe using a good oil based paint rather than water based would be a better idea though. 

Living in North Yorkshire,  my topsides could be considered to be below the waterline, so I'm using some decent marine paint to hopefully keep the wood underneath dry.

[Steve Joyce]

Just given the inside of my storm 15 a coat of the Jotun Hardtop HB.  When mixed this is a very runny consistency,  but goes on quite well with a short pile roller.  I think the coverage (8 sqM per ltr.) is based on spray application as I used the whole litre for one coat.  It really needs another coat.  Inside I left it as it was straight from the roller.  This flattened down reasonably well to leave a slightly dimpled "hammerite" sort of finish. On the decks I tipped if off with a paintbrush.  Overall I think it looks alright. Spraying would almost certainly be better but I am not geared up for this and I quite the the "homemade" look.

It will be interesting to see how it stands up to wear and tear.  Watch for an update next October.

One suggestion,  the Coast White which I went for has a slight blueish tint. This is fine for me as I went for Sapphire blue for the main colour.  I couldn't differentiate between the whites on the web,  so getting their colour chart may be a good idea.