Keeping a BRe head to wind to raise the main

[Peter Taylor]

I can only think that the cabin and longer mast have enough windage to cause this behaviour.

D'oh! I hadn't thought about the windage on the mast before! That explains why, once the mainsail is up Seatern will sit head to wind quite happily (as she does when I miss a tack!). All that flapping sail aft of the centreboard keeps her head to wind - but that's largely missing when trying to raise the main sail and then the windage is forward of the centre of lateral resistance, especially with the rudder down, and she turns away until the mizzen fills enough to bring things back into balance.

Peter

[Rob Waller]

Andy, could you tell us more about the Barton track you mentioned - is this a mod we could consider for a BRe? Part of the main sail problem is the time it takes, with the lazyjacks, the difficult last six inches, etc.

By the way, has anyone mentioned tides? In Emsworth (Chichester Harbour), with the tide rushing in (ie, the time when you have to set off), whatever the state of the wind, you are hurtling towards moored boats or the shore, so you haven't much hope of maintaining a direction or position for very long.

[Andy Dingle]

Rob.

My (now sold) Bayraider had a wooden mast with a length of Barton track screwed to its aft edge to take the luff of the mainsail and the CF gaff spar which simply had a Barton track car screwed to its end.

'T' shaped Barton track can be bought by the metre. Barton 'cars' and other track accessories can then be slid on it.
Track part No. is 22000, cars part No. is 22300. There are also useful stoppers (22301), that operate with a plunger pin that pops into pre drilled holes in the track, simply lift it and slide  the stopper up and down to where you want. Cars with built in stoppers are available.
I used a stopper to great effect to stop the whole lot sliding out of the track when lowering the sail and reefing.
I am not sure why Matt didn't continue with this solution for raising the gaff spar and mainsail - it is not prohibitively expensive and works 100 percent. The mainsail and gaff spar were up and down like the proverbial on pay day without ever any problems.
All are on the Barton website - http://www.bartonmarine.com/products-genoa-cars-and-sliders-for-20mm-track.asp

I'm not sure how the BRe's Carbon mast is set up?
My current Baycruiser has a substantial luff groove glued to the CF mast which takes the mainsails 'slugs' quite well and I haven't as yet had any of the sail raising problems reported on the forum so far. I do use a winch, but that is really just to get the tension onto the luff as opposed to forcing the last few inches.

If your BRe CF mast is able to take the track - ie it doesn't have a luff groove fixed to it, then I see no reason why it couldn't take Barton track, glued, screwed (or rivetted) in. The cars are simply tied into cringles on the sail every couple of feet or so, I did actually add a car or two, the more cars the better sail shape.
Though I think I would be considering taking Matt's advice before going down that route.

Valid point re tides - that is why I use my engine (as I said earlier - varying speeds dependant on sea conditions) to generate forward apparent wind no matter which way the boat is being pushed.
My personal opinion and experience is that if you try and faff about with main etc, when stopped you are going to be subjected to everything the sea and wind can throw at you - and sods law says it will. I think trying that if you are on your own is positively dangerous to be honest.

On my old BR with the system as described above I could have the gaff and main up in moments, the spar and mainsail all being slotted into the track prior to launching and laid back down over the boom, held and supported in the 'double' topping lift, secured down with sail ties, cruiser style.
I also fitted a sliding car to the tack, then using a rope tied around the mast raising bolt on the tabernacle, back to the car and through a V jamming cleat as a cunningham, I was able to get very good tension on the sail without it separating from the mast.

Hope this is of some use.

Regards

Andy
BayCruiser23 No.25 'Equinox'

[Andy Dingle]

Rob.

I've dug out some pictures of what I have been trying to describe. Shows the cars on the track and the CF spar fitted to the track and the cunningham arrangement - there is a picture of 'Psalter' on the Caledonia 2014 gallery of the main and spar laid back on the boom ready for sailing.

Again, hope this is of use.

Andy

[Rob Waller]

Andy

Thanks for taking the trouble to reply in such detail. I'll check but I think my mast has a glued groove like yours.

Your point about lone sailing is well made, and the conclusion I'm coming to. The problem is that there are a lot of old geezers like me who want the relative safety and stability of dayboat sailing but don't have family nearby or mates who want to sail. I thought the self-tacking jib and water ballast would make the BRe ideal, And it is... Once you get the sail up, and that's pretty much impossible to do safely and reliably on your own in the location where I sail.

Thanks again.

[Peter Taylor]

Your point about lone sailing is well made, and the conclusion I'm coming to. The problem is that there are a lot of old geezers like me who want the relative safety and stability of dayboat sailing but don't have family nearby or mates who want to sail. I thought the self-tacking jib and water ballast would make the BRe ideal, And it is... Once you get the sail up, and that's pretty much impossible to do safely and reliably on your own in the location where I sail.

I'm a similar old geezer but I'm sure there must be a solution! If the current is the problem can't you  pick up a vacant mooring?  Then set the mizzen followed by the main sail and only unfurl the jib as you let go the mooring.  Alternatively anchor somewhere and get the sails set (although me getting the anchor up under sail is an operation I'd prefer not have displayed on YouTube!).  Where I put the sails up (Southampton Water) I've used both techniques on occasions - in general I can't motor into the wind because sod's law says it takes me into the shipping lane.  In fact last Saturday was the first time I can remember where the wind direction did actually allow me to keep motoring (and then everything got in a horrible tangle, but that was my fault).

Because of the way my luff track is set up (to allow me to detach the boom and lower the mast) I usually have to go onto the cabin roof of my BC20 to get the main up. I've rigged the jackstays so that when doing that I can use my safety line to help brace me in position (e.g. if a ferry wake hits Seatern in the middle of the operation).  I would have thought the operation should be easier with a BRe, but I'm probably wrong!

Peter

[Peter Taylor]

Interesting Readers tip in the current PBO magazine: Soak a sponge in dry-lube spray (as used for domestic curtain rails etc.) and jam it in the luff groove between the top two sliders. It will then clean and lubricate the groove each time you hoist the main! The tip is actually about heaving to with a self-tacking jib. Not having such a thing I don't know if it's relevant to the set up on BR/BRe's etc.

Peter