What would happen if you lost your rudder?

[david]

All this conversation about keeping the BRe head to wind to raise the main with the rudder up, got me to thinking, "What would happen if I lost my rudder?" I did not want to hijack the other thread, so thought I would invite ideas on a different thread.
  I did try to sail this past Sunday, with the rudder raised. Just to see how I would do, not having ever tried this before! I have to say I was very successful in sailing in tight little circles. Not so good at sailing where I wanted to go Maybe I should have rolled in the jib on my BR20? I will try that next. I did find that it did not take much trimming of the mizzen to make the boat turn!
  Does anyone have any experience on how to do this.

david.

[Graham W]

I haven't tried it (yet) but I've always thought that if I lost my rudder, I would stick an oar over the stern.  I've actually got an oarlock post there (the result of an unsuccessful attempt at sculling), so I would use that to keep the oar in place.  Failing that, tie the oar up against the mizzen mast?

[david]

Hi Graham,
                       Interesting. My initial thought  was to run the oar through  the outboard  well. No row lock for   me at the  stern. So similar thought process. I would like to see if I could sail by using  just the sail trim. I'm thinking  of it more  as a grand experiment. That may also help my seamanship.

David.

[Julian Swindell]

This is an interesting experiment and I may have a go at it as well next season. One problem with losing your rudder is not just the loss of steering, but the loss of a lot of lateral resistance at the stern, which the boats have been designed to expect. This should mean that there will be a strong tendency for the stern to blow down wind, bringing the bow up into the wind. It might help to partially raise the centreboard, which will bring its centre of resistance further back. Letting the mizzen loose and keeping the jib tight might also help.

[Peter Taylor]

I've sailed racing dinghies without a rudder a few times , in one case I had to return a few miles to get back to the slip way (fortunately it was a reach). Like Julian says you have to counter the weather helm. On a reach, keeping the jib sheeted and letting the mainsail out so it's mostly backed by the jib helps both in terms of sail balance and also keeping the boat dead upright (heeling to leeward induces weather helm and vice versa; in a racing dinghy in light weather, steering by heeling the boat rather than using the rudder is a standard technique to maximise boat speed).

Coincidently, the latest Practical Boat Owner (No 581 Dec 2014, 85 - 87) has an article on this topic including tips like streaming a bucket or drogue for broad reach/down-wind work.

What would I do in Seatern? ...start the outboard and motor home! But if the outboard realised it was an emergency and refused to start I would try the "oar through the outboard well" idea.  In my case it would mean lashing a flat bladed paddle to the outboard so it went down vertically and then using the outboard handle to steer. I might try that idea sometime when the weather is better and see if it works!
Peter

[David Hudson]

With centreboards, we have a further weapon in our armoury.

Combining sail trim, centreboard adjustment and boat trim both athwartships and fore and aft, a boat can be contolled quite adequately.

Or as has been suggested earlier, start your engine but it's not so satifying!

[Matthew P]

I once owned a Drascombe Coaster which had many virtues (yes, really) but the rudder had to be lifted out well before going into shoal water, otherwise it jammed under the hull.  Steering with an oar over the stern, located in a rowlock fitted to the transom, was never a problem.

It has occured to me that if the centre board should drop out of Gladys (she has been known to do similar tricks) then a rowing thwart or paddle shoved down the center board slot may not help high windward performance but might get me out of trouble.  Happily, I have not had to try it though.

Matthew
BR20 Gladys 

[david]

Hi Mathew P,
                     I tried the "sailing without the centerboard down" this weekend. The BayRaider can be sailed with the centerboard up, it is a beast. But does respond to the rudder. You will find yourself completing a jibe (US) or gybe (Britain) rather than tacks. (At least I did!).
 Not a preferred way to sail as the boat may be a little more unstable. I was in 10 mph winds with full sail and did not feel in danger of a capsize. But, I think it is probably OK in an emergency to get you back to port when the weather is not too bad.
 Do you think the centerboard would float if it came out? There would be a lot of drag with it in the water. If it floated, you could just bring it on board?
 I hope that the center board dropping out does not happen!
(Of course, starting up the motor is always an option. Albeit, an unsatisfactory one).

  Sailing without a rudder will take more practice for me. Still not able to sail where I want to go.

[David Hudson]

How are you with "booee's" and vangs David?

[Roge]

I have not tried in on the BR but have done it many times before so my first stab would be to put the mizzen away, go to half centre board (starting point) take the jib sheet in one hand and the main in the other sheeting in the jib and out with the main to bare away and in on the main and out on the jib to head up. Standing up in the centre of the boat seems to enable the balance to be judged best.
Once you get a balance between sails and centre board for any given direction and with a bit of practice it is suprising how balanced the boat can become.

[david]

Reviving an older set of posts here. I tried several times last year to "sail with out rudder". The results ranged from disappointing to I might just make it back!  I came to the conclusion that my skill set is just not good enough to sail without the rudder on my BayRaider 20! (I did finally manage to sail in a straight line, once the mizzen was folded away. )
So, what to do in an emergency if the engine does not want to cooperate? The solution of an oar through the engine well does work with just enough finesse to get me to a pontoon that does not require a lot of maneuvering!(Mizzen folded).  Another thought is to use the "oar over the side" like they do on the duck punts I have seen on keep turning left videos.  Not tried this, yet

[Anthony Huggett]

Interesting thread! In reply to David's question "will the centreboard float?" I think the answer is "no, it will sink like a brick". There's several kg of lead in a BR centreboard to make it sink in use (see my post on casting it in the builders area).

Here comes the science bit:
Think about where a plywood plank of that size would float (it would be mostly submerged - density ~900 kg/m^3). Now, according to Archimedes, to float the 6 kg of lead (that's the BR17 figure) you'd need an extra 6 litres of volume of wood above the water.

[Peter Taylor]

Here comes the science bit:
Think about where a plywood plank of that size would float (it would be mostly submerged - density ~900 kg/m^3). Now, according to Archimedes, to float the 6 kg of lead (that's the BR17 figure) you'd need an extra 6 litres of volume of wood above the water.

Don't you mean "in the water"!
Peter

[Anthony Huggett]

I meant that before the lead is added, there needs to be 6L of reserve buoyancy - that is the plank in my thought experiment needs to have 6L projecting above the water.

This provides the buoyancy required as the weight of the lead is considered. With the lead, 6L more of the plank will then be under the water, as you point out.  If there's less than 6L above the water in the first place it won't float.