Bay Raider expedition

[Jamesphillipps]

Have just put down deposit on new BRe.  The Excel list offers lots of add ons. Any advice on what is essential, useful etc. What is most appropriate outboards? All  advice welcome.

Jim Phillipps

[Jonathan Stuart]

Jim,

Welcome to the forum and you've made a great choice for your new boat. Re outboards, there's been a few discussions on the forum and also a Library article. Here are links to two of them:

http://www.swallowyachtsassociation.org/?page_id=347
http://www.swallowyachtsassociation.org/smf/index.php?topic=248

Opinions re outboards seem to be split between "small is beautiful" and "I want extra grunt just in case"!

[Andy Dingle]

Welcome to the wonderful world of Swallow Boating Jim!

I was in the same position as you last year when I put a deposit down on a Baycruiser 23 at Excel and went through the buying process through the year for final delivery at the Southampton Boat Show. This was my second new Swallow Boat I have bought (the other being a WE BR20), so I have a degree of experience with the Swallow Boats yard - I'll gladly offer any advice and help I can, and if I don't know I can guarantee someone on this forum will.
My first and probably the best advice I can give is to email laura@swallowboats.com (Matt's PA) and get her on board, copy any emails to SB to her - she gets things done and will keep you informed re the progress of your boat.

Be as certain (as you can be) on what you want fitted on the boat - and ensure all is listed on the 'spread sheet' which the lads doing the actual building refer to. Go through that list of 'extra's' with a fine tooth comb, try to establish what is actually 'standard' on the boat - I found there is a bit of blurring between the two! 'Extra's' may also be things you consider essential! The costs go up exponentially with 'extra's' especially if you want something that is neither 'standard' or an 'extra'.
The fit out of your boat is a very personal thing and dependent on what you want to do with her. But if you do want fancy electronics I would urge you to go for one single manufacturer for all bits - makes life a lot easier for the builders (hence cheaper for you) and generally will be plug and play so they all work together. Again there is a wealth of advice on here re electrics. Don't forget nav lights/steaming/anchor if you are going to be out at night - although expensive for the yard to fit for you is far better done at the outset.

The trailer is a major factor (as is the engine), ensure it is a braked trailer (do not be fobbed off with the idea a standard unbraked (750 kg) will be ok. Hence it is not cheap - assuming, of course, you need a trailer. I haven't met anyone yet who doesn't need one). I found the cost for Matt to supply spare wheel and bracket to be better than I could do myself so don't forget to order those with the trailer.
Soft furnishings/cushions - I personally found the ones suppled by SB were not particularly brilliant and an 'upgrade' was silly money. I took my boat after delivery to a local upholsterer and got substantially better and cheaper.

The subject of engines is vast and there has been many discussions here. It depends on where you are sailing. On a lake/reservoir a small 2 - 3.5 hp is fine. The ones without a reverse gear are I think, worse than useless.
My opinion is that you should go for a good 4 or 5 hp four stroke, (manufacturers models and price are fairly standard) with proper forward and reverse gears. It must be short (standard) shaft, ideally with a sail drive prop if you can run to that - if you are hoping to make progress in any kind of sea or current then you will be glad of it. Don't waste one second of your time thinking of electric outboards (torqueedo's) etc, no matter what others might say. Again, they are just not feasible - unless again you are just lake sailing.

I could go on all day! But I hope this is a start for you - if you have any queries just ask!

Kind regards

Andy
Baycruiser23 No.25 'Equinox'

[Peter Taylor]

Hi Jim,

Andy has given a lot of good advice!  I had my Baycruiser 20 delivered just over a year ago and have been keeping a web blog on my adventures with her. I've describe the equipment fit I chose and recently I've added an assessment of what proved good (and otherwise!).... 

 see  www.seatern.org.uk/SeaternDiaries/firstyearcomments.php  plus linked pages

Almost certainly Seatern is set up with more cruising gear than you will want for your BRe but some of the info may be useful for you. And certainly ask if there is anything I can clarify.

Re. electrics I differ a little from Andy's advice. If you want them and can install them yourself you will save quite a few pennies and you can choose exactly what you want.  However if SB are fitting them then, as Andy says, keep things as simple as possible!

Thinking about saving money, I made up a list of all the things I thought I needed and got a couple of chandlers to give me a quote for the lot.  Force 4 gave me a good discount which worked out significantly cheaper than if I'd shopped for the cheapest items from different web sites. Some of the items I bought that way, I then took to SB for them to fit during the build.

I've certainly not been disappointed with Seatern and I'm glad I chose Swallow boats, I'm sure it will be the same for you!
Peter

[Jonathan Stuart]

Jim,

I said outboards split opinions - I use a 2.5hp on my BRe, mostly cruise at sea and the lack of reverse doesn't' bother me at all, even when maneuvering in marinas! Still, if you might get caught on the wrong side of a swift tide and can't wait for it to turn, etc, then get something bigger.

Here is what I thought was/is essential for my BRe off the options list:

• Sprayhood - not cheap and visibility with it up isn't great, but you wouldn't be without it on the 1 trip in 10 when you need it.
• Rubbing strip - the gunwale seems to take more impacts than the rubbing strip, but I'd still fit this.
• Cabin cushions - Essential for sitting/sleeping in cabin. When I bought my BRe the standard material was more suitable for cruisers rather than a small cabin where they will get trodden on, etc. I got SB to make the cushions but specified acrylic canvas material.
• Permateek seating - Not cheap but it looks great.
• Spinlock clutches on cabin roof - I suspect this might be standard now, but the early BRe had horn cleats as standard for halyards, etc, and I upgraded to Spinlock clutches. Definitely worthwhile.
• Oarlocks - Essential if you might join any "sail and oar" event or Raid, etc, but if not then you'll never want to row a BRe!
• Bilge pump - Fit a Whale Urchin and make sure the yard uses 38mm piping and trims off the 25mm pipe attachment on the pump. This significantly increases the flow rate. Consider fitting two pumps if you sail on the sea, etc, each of which pumps from the other side of the boat from where the pump is mounted. Means you can always pump out water regardless of what tack you are on or the amount of heel.

Here are some other thoughts for things you might want to do (or get SB to do) that aren't on the options list:

• If you have the self tacking jib, which, personally I recommend, then fit a topping lift to the aft end of the jib boom. This maintains jib halyard tension when jib is furled and allows adjustment of jib outhaul tension.
• Replace the lazy jacks with adjustable LJs/topping lift as on BC23. Means you can raise boom higher and that makes it easier to raise the mainsail, and when sailing you can release the LJs enough not to restrict the sail on a run.
• After taking a few knocks, I got the yard to add stainless steel protection strips to the front edge of the rudder and centre board. This was cheap and very worthwhile.
• Mainsail needs a cunningham. Probably standard now but make sure you get one.
• Wood strip added to bottom of companionway to hold bottom of washboards in place. Without this the bottom washboard can drop down, get wedged and distorts over time.

I hope that helps!

[martin scott]

Hi Jim,
If you're going to keep your BRe on a sea water mooring, as mine is, copper coating seems to work really well at preventing growths below the water line. Admittedly I've only had one full season but its looking hopeful for a good few years of minimal winter maintenance. One thing I have found essential is a cockpit cover. The BRe is not self-draining and without a cover gets flooded from heavy rainfall. But whatever extras, have fun in anticipation of great sailing.
Martin
(Blue Moon)

   

[Jamesphillipps]

Thanks for all the advice so far.Had not appreciated that the cockpit was not self draining, and am intending to keep on swinging mooring,so cover could be very helpful. The boat will probably be in Milford Haven with strong tides so I suspect 5-6 hp engine is going to be more suitable.Do all these engines swing up easily - I saw one photo which showed the engine apparently tilted sideways as well as upwards?

Jim

[Andy Dingle]

Jim.
Yes, all ouboard engines will tilt up - that is why you must have a short (or standard) shaft so it will lift up within the confines of the well. They will all tilt to either side when lifted - that is normal. It is usual to lift the engine when sailing to give less drag.
When I had my BR20 I fitted the fuel tank in the port locker, I don't see any reason why this could not be fitted in your BRe and I will be fitting my fuel tank in a locker in my new BC23 to save space in the cockpit.
I would think that a 5 hp would be perfectly good for you.

For your info I have just this weekend bought a 6 hp Mercury (Freddy! With apologies to Rob..) brand new, internal and external tanks, gear lever on the front - (try and find one like this, as opposed to the gear lever on the side, it makes operation so much easier) - short shaft, 5 year warranty. I paid £930 and am having a high thrust prop for an extra £66.

Regards

Andy
Baycruiser23 No.25 'Equinox'

[Jonathan Stuart]

I haven't found the cockpit not to be self draining....if you leave the bailers open then it drains on mine. However, if the ballast tanks are full then the external water level is approximately level with the cockpit sole and then leaving the bailers open means the sump is full, etc. Regardless, a cockpit cover sounds a good idea for a BRe on a mooring.

I would also add the bulkhead halyard bags (and accompanying cabin storage) to the list of options I would recommend.

[Julian Swindell]

I was at the West Midlands Boat Jumble yesterday (yes, very sad, and very, very cold). I looked longingly at a reconditioned Evinrude 4HP 2 stroke, identical to one I had on my old Drascombe Dabber. You could pick it up with one finger and it is so small that you could easily take it off and stow it in a locker. No worries about which side you lay it on or anything. I know they are dirty, they get gummed up and I developed quite a strong right arm from pull exercises on the starting cord, but I was severely tempted. Only the thought of explaining a third outboard engine to my wife stopped me. Modern 4 strokes may be better in some ways, but not all.

[David Hudson]

A small but, for me, an important change in jib sheet cleat spec.

I had the Spinlock version on my Cape Cutter. A certain amount of vertical clearance is required to release the sheet with an upward movement of the sheet. I regularly bruised the top of my hand by banging it on the boom or had to go to leeward of the boom to achieve the correct angle of release. Having used Harken cam cleats for many years, the Spinlocks p***ed me off royally.

Matt has fitted Allen cam cleats on Amy E. and I am a happy bunny once again!

[Peter Taylor]

I agree with David on that one! When bearing away, the only way I can free up the jib with the spinlock jammers is to go across to the leeward side which is difficult if I'm trying to hold the tiller to windward at the same time! I complained to Matt and he provided me with some replacement cam cleats which I need to fit some time this winter.

With regard to outboards, I chose a Tohatsu 6hp one for my BC20 (and like Andy substituted a high thrust prop). Since the Tohatsu/Mariner/Mercury 4/5/6 hp versions are all the same weight and size, I thought the extra power might be worth the extra money. So far I've not had to use anywhere near full power and I find that, at the very lowest revs Seatern still gets pushed along at more than a knot.  For a BRe it may be that a 4 or 5hp would give better low speed handling than using a 6hp (as well as being cheaper) - actual BRe owners will no doubt advise!

Btw, following Rob's lead, I googled but still could not find a pop-singer with "Tohatsu" as a surname, so my outboard is Welsh and called "Dai" ...he's got a Thai brother called "Toe".

Peter

[Rory C]

You've made an excellent choice Jim.
I don't know when you hope to take delivery but if it's not before mid July you'd be welcome to come and see and have a sail in my BRe. I've booked a house in Dale for the week beginning July 11th for a family holiday and hope to take a temporary membership at the sailing club there.
 
I chose rubbing strip, mark2 jib and asymmetric, spray hood, canvas bags, internal cushions, bilge pump and compass. Although it looked expensive the mark2 jib included the winch and clutches that greatly facilitate mast raising. The asymmetric is brilliant (See owners perspective on the new SB website).
Instead of Permateak Matt got me some superb vynil covered foam cockpit cushions that look good and make day sailing so much more comfortable and only marginally more expensive than the former.
I also had  a cheek block at the masthead that allows me to raise and lower a burgee.
My Yamaha 4hp is perfectly adequate for its job with a standard prop.
I wish I had had reinforcement on the leading edge of my centreboard. I hit an offshore rock on my first outing on Ullswater and only studied the result at the end of the season. I've had to insert a hardwood strip with brass keel band to prevent further damage. I may put photos on the forum in due course. It was not as simple as it sounds!
Hope this is helpful.
Rory

[Jamesphillipps]

Thanks for all the advice - meeting Matt next week to make decisions!

[Rob Johnstone]

Great Grief - I've started a trend.......it's the first time ever. Honest.  Although I don't think naming outboards after pop stars will make it very far on twitter!