Outboards, electric and petrol, for epoxy/ply Bayraider 20

[MarkDarley]

I thought I would restart a thread given that electric motors, and especially their batteries, are improving all the time.

It looks like I have found the boat I was looking for and I will need a motor.  I have read criticism of the lack of thrust of electric motors in headwind and chop. 

I certainly would prefer to avoid fuel and grease, and I would like to keep the weight of both engine, power source and fuel to a minimum.

I prefer sailing whenever possible, but what is proving to be the best engine for the Bayraiders wishing to push through foul tide and chop in little wind?

Thanks
Mark

[johnguy]

Against Matt's advice I bought and fitted a Torqeedo 1003, and also bought the chunky new hi capacity battery, for my new Bre. Two problems.

One is that the torqeedo is just too  long and simply doesn't fit the well on the Bre, it always jams, and second is that although it has enough power that power doesn't go for long enough when the conditions are bad.  I sail out of Cardiff. In the Bay the electric engine was plenty and nice, but it is not quiet and always jammed in the well at just the time you didn't want it to. In the Bristol Channel I always felt at risk and was super careful about tides.

So I sold that on e bay and got a new Yamaha 6hp with remote tank. It is just as quiet as the torqeedo, loads of oomph and never runs out and fits the well a treat. I burn aspen fuel in it, starts first time every time and is clean as a whistle. On full chat you could water ski with it, but I hardly ever need to turn the throttle up past the start level to get 5 knots.

[Peter Cockerton]

Mark

Article in the library under Boat Ownership makes informative reading.
Personally I like my 4hp Yamaha, internal and external fuel tank options, reverse gear, and it starts reliably. I keep standard forecourt fuel in it and treat it with STA-BIL marine.
Living in Coventry the majority of my sailing is on Rutland water where I use my Minn-Kota electric, I have experienced some very strong tides whilst sailing in the Morbihan waters and the 4 Hp Yamaha has always performed well.

Thinking about Morbihan we actually pulled a Baycruiser 23 out of a spot of trouble after his engine failed in the canal leading into Vannes, the tide was pushing him under a low bridge so we threw him a line and towed him out in reverse.

Peter

[Graham W]

Article in the library under Boat Ownership makes informative reading.

See http://www.swallowyachtsassociation.org/?p=347 and http://www.swallowyachtsassociation.org/?p=820, both of which are more relevant to BayRaiders.

If going down the larger 4-stroke route, it may be worth investing in a saildrive-type propeller.  I don't know about a lightweight epoxy-ply BayRaider but it's well suited to my heavily-laden displacement GRP version when I'm cruising.

[Johan Ellingsen]

Do you know of a suitable combination?

[Graham W]

Johan,

I have a Mariner standard shaft 6hp (which is identical to the Tohatsu and Mercury versions and virtually the same, except for price, as all of their 4hp and 5hp models).  Mine came with the original propeller which is intended for small boats that can plane.  I replaced it with this high thrust propeller and kept the original for emergencies https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mercury-Mariner-Sail-4HP-5HP-6HP-2-4-Stroke-Outboard-High-Thrust-Propeller-/263120274278

Mariner do a standard 6hp package which includes the high thrust propeller and a built-in alternator.  However, I think that it is only available in long shaft.

If I was starting again, I might be tempted by the Yamaha 6hp, which has a very good reputation and can be rested horizontally on either side without causing engine problems. The 4hp is virtually identical, except for the price.  I think they do a high thrust propeller as well but don't know the details.

Small outboards are only as good as the fuel put into them and after having lots of problems with garage unleaded, I now only use Aspen, like johnguy above.  Expensive but worth it for the small amounts that I use.

[johnguy]

Just an addition, a couple of times now being more adventurous I have been fighting tide, chop and wind in Bristol Channel to get back to the lock. With the 6hp Yamaha I never felt in trouble and it did the job nicely even in quite poor conditions. As a bonus when sailing it tips up nicely into well, when left on mooring it tips up further and horizontal so well clear of dirty river water where I moor. I like having fuel in engine tank and remote tank too, always feeling of a good reserve there.

[Woodlark]

The Yamaha 6 is a very reliable and powerful engine and very suited to my Swallow BRe. However even with all the TLC in the World  it is still a poor starter whatever technique I use. For this reason I would not recommend it to other Swallow yacht owners.

[johnguy]

That's a pity Ron. When I got mine I thought it was not a great starter. But I realised the issue was the remote tank. Now I switch the fuel tap to engine tank, full choke, one slow pull through and then one quick yank and it goes first time every time. Pop choke in quick. Then I switch to the remote tank. Works for me.

Having said that one of my regular sailing chums sometimes struggles to get it to go. I blame this on him being a really nice guy. It starts better if you are more assertive, or as my wife says, nasty...

[Graham W]

The Yamaha 6 is a very reliable and powerful engine and very suited to my Swallow BRe. However even with all the TLC in the World  it is still a poor starter whatever technique I use. For this reason I would not recommend it to other Swallow yacht owners.

I think most smallish outboards are a bit temperamental like that.  My Mariner 6 usually takes two or three pulls to get going, even using Aspen fuel.  And as johnguy suggests, using the internal tank as the initial fuel feed on startup before switching to the external tank does seem to help.

[Woodlark]

I will give that technique a try, thanks. I also know the initial throttle setting is important because if it's too much or too little it can take me a dozen pulls before I even get a 'splutter'. Whereas my 2-stroke Evinrude e-tec on another boat always starts first time every time.

[Graham W]

It shouldn't take that many pulls to get going.  If the internal tank starting trick doesn't help, has anyone had a look at your carburettor recently?  The jets can get partially blocked, leading to all sorts of bad behaviour.

[MarkDarley]

That sounds like a pretty clear thumbs down on the Torqueedo 1003 and a vote of confidence on the Mariner for its price so far.

About 3 years ago I tried out the then latest Torqueedo on Tomales Bay (California) on my Salterns Tela.  It lasted about 35 minutes pushing the boat into a chop and 20 knots...clearly not enough power at that time.  Seems not much has changed, plus it sounds like it is physically a bad fit.

Any other comments?

Mark

[Graham W]

The Honda 4-6hp range may also be worth looking at.  It was updated two years ago and appears to be fairly refined, at least compared to its predecessors.  The Mariner/Mercury/Tohatsu has been around for at least a decade, the only recent change being the introduction of the front-mounted gear selector in around 2011.

[Barry C]

I'm curious to know whether anyone has experience with the newish Tohatsu 5 hp propane (LPG)-fueled outboard.   http://www.tohatsu.com/outboards/5_4st_lpg.html

I have a BRe on order and I'm exploring outboard options. Propane has a variety of interesting advantages (and a couple of disadvantages) compared to gasoline. The only commercial competitor to the Tohatsu seems to be from Lehr, which may have reliability problems.

Presumably the LPG Tohatsu short shaft would fit nicely into a BRe. The prospect of avoiding ethanol issues is certainly a plus.

Thanks,
Barry