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[Colin Morley]

I decided to buy a 5hp, which I have been very happy with

Which one have you got?

I have a Yamaha 5HP 2 stroke which I bought a few months ago secondhand for £500. I was told from various sources that a four stroke small outboard would give more trouble than a two stoke. Apparently four stroke is good for large engines but not so good for small ones.
I am sure that a 2.5 HP will deliver a reasonable speed under most circumstances. however, I was put off by the lack of a reverse gear.

Colin

[Andy Dingle]

The old chestnut of engine size keeps cropping up.  I have a Tohatsu 5 hp four stroke on my BR which I always use when I go out to sea. Having just got back in from probably the hariest sail I have had for some time I was very glad of the extra pushing power that it gave me.

I have just joined a new club, beautiful location with a good slip and a fairly straightforward (so I thought!) route out to sea. (www.saltfleethaven.co.uk).  Armed with local charts and as much local knowledge as I could glean,  I followed some other guys out, when we rounded the corner and approached the bar I was horrified to find what appeared to be a solid wall of breaking waves in front of me, the others all disappeared into the foaming mass of water. Trusting my faithful Bayraider we manfully ploughed on following the buoys (those that didn't turn out to be seals popping their heads up to admire my BR!), over the bar with breaking waves that I estimated over a metre high all around us until eventually breaking through to calmer waters.  This being my first day out at this club and the object of the exercise was to familiarise myself with the route out to sea, I turned around and did it all again!

Whilst I agree with a lot that has been said about the smaller outboards and they certainly have their merits I do not think that they would have coped, or gave me the reassurance in taking on breaking surf on a foul tide and against the wind. I knew my Bayraider could handle these conditions and my Tohatsu had the strength to help her along. The only weak link being me!

As usual, when chatting to the inevitable admiring group of sailors around me when loaded back on the trailer. An old hand approached saying 'Hey boy, you know you sailed straight over the bar. Don't know why you didn't just follow the river out. Silly bugger!' He said, shaking his head and walking off!

[Graham W]

I have completed a 36 nautical mile round trip motor sail with a Suzuki 2.5 mounted on my BR.  On the way out because there was virtually no wind and on the way back because the wind, when it occasionally appeared, was on the nose.  The whole trip took about 8 hours and I used approximately 4 litres of fuel.  The trip out was unballasted and the trip back, to help cut through a short chop (despite the lack of wind) ballasted.

I used my tiller tamer/central steering mod for at least 10 NM, mainly to get away from the noise of the engine.  The engine should be relatively quiet under normal circumstances but a substantial amount of noise is generated by my engine top casing vibrating against the engine.  I have tried to suppress it using bits of foam etc but will do a more professional job when I get back to the UK.

I also suffer from the flat spot and stalling just after idle and will try to get this fixed with the first service.  Exhaust fumes are barely noticeable.  Much more noticeable are petrol fumes when the engine is tilted and the fuel cap or air vent are not tightened sufficiently (which is a lot). Otherwise, the engine has been reliable and man enough for the job.

Internal combustion engines are not allowed on Lake Bala, where I do most of my sailing.  The 36 NM trip was a complete aberration - it was to meet for lunch and fish on the way but the admittedly quite large planer board and tuna lure I was trolling knocked a whole knot off my speed, so I quickly gave that idea up. Nearly all my normal engine use is for short manoeuvres of much less than 1 NM.  So I still hanker after a quiet and smell-free battery powered Torqeedo, if only they would get their short shaft measurements sorted out so that the engine can be tilted up in the BR engine well.

[Graham W]

Update: I used some spare seal left over from waterproofing the lockers to insulate the Suzuki engine top casing from the rest of the machine.  This has eliminated a reverberating noise although I still find the engine quite loud at higher revs.

The flat spot and stalling problem is still there to catch the unwary, despite asking my servicer to sort it out.  It would be nice to be able to connect to an external fuel tank but even so, 1 litre of fuel goes a long way. 

Now that I am manoeuvring around and between pontoons at Hafan Pwllheli, I miss having a proper reverse gear and being able to rotate the engine through 180 degrees is an inadequate substitute. To avoid any more, ahem, incidents I shall use oars to manoeuvre at close quarters in future.

[Julian Swindell]

It was the lack of reverse as much as a lack of power that made me go from a 2.3HP Honda to a 6HP Tohatsu. I have to do a lot of twisting about through moored boats and pontoons, and spinning the engine round just didn't really do it. Even on the bigger engine, the gear lever is a bit inaccessible down the side. I would like to be able to flick it into forward or reverse from the top whilst I can watch what is going on. As it is, I have to dive down under to find the lever and give it a hard shove, which all takes time.

[Graham W]

Fiddling about with inaccessible gear levers and 180 degree engine rotations become even less spontaneous when collision is imminent.  A rabbit in slow-moving headlights conjures up the correct image.  Still, at least it wasn't the French Navy on the receiving end.......

[Graham W]

I still think that electric propulsion is (or will be) the best way to go for the BR20.  The problem is, there is still nothing out there that is suitable, unless anyone knows differently.  The Torqeedo Travel 1003 seems to come closest to the ideal specification but is let down by:

1.  Cost - around £1,400
2.  Range - one integrated lithium battery will probably only get you about 5NM at a reasonable speed before it runs out, which is about the same as a tankful of petrol in a Suzuki 2.5.  One solution would be a spare battery (£450!) and/or a solar charger (£800!!), at least for use in places other than Wales that actually see the sun
3.  Shaft length - this one is bizarre.  For reasons best known to themselves, Torqeedo have decided that their standard short shaft length is 62.5cm, compared to an industry norm of 40-50cm.  Width is not a problem on this model because the long bladed propeller only has two blades.  The cheaper Travel 503 has three long blades, which rules it out.  However, the extra shaft length on the 1003 means that the motor cannot be tilted up into the engine well.  There has been some talk of getting Torqeedo to do a special run of shorter shaft motors but I think that has fallen by the wayside.  It has also been suggested that the shaft could be cut down with a hacksaw, which would invalidate the warranty.

So, I think the only thing to do is to wait for something better, cheaper and with a shorter shaft to come along. Oh, and a 12v accessory socket running off the lithium battery would be nice to have too. Lithium battery technology keeps progressing, certainly at a faster pace (now) than the internal combustion engine. Maybe in a couple of years? 

In the meantime, I shall put up with my Suzuki 2.5 and its problems, which include noise, vibration and smell, no proper reverse, the slow speed stalling issue and the danger that lying it down on the wrong side can cause an expensive repair bill.

[david]

Interesting thread all. I have a 2001 2HP Honda for the past few years. No problems. Just regular tune ups and working well. Reverse is the 180 turn. I have not had any issues yet with that maneuver.

Regards,

David.

[Graham W]

....and another thing.

I was flushing out my Suzuki cooling system with fresh water after a spell at sea and noticed that nothing was coming out of the telltale.  The manual said that this was probably caused by a blocked outlet, without saying how to sort it out.  A search on the internet told me what to do - I unscrewed a bung that looks like something to do with the oil system and out came seawater containing black particles.  The cooling system now works again but I notice from internet images that the impeller is also black, so wonder if this is a sign that it is about to disintegrate......

[Anthony Huggett]

Interesting thread all. I have a 2001 2HP Honda for the past few years. No problems. Just regular tune ups and working well. Reverse is the 180 turn. I have not had any issues yet with that maneuver.

Regards,

David.

I had a 2HP Honda 4 stroke (longshaft) for the tender to my last yacht. Excellent engine, air cooled, so no impeller to worry about, just change the oil at the stated intervals. I am planning to buy a 2HP Honda short shaft for the BR17 when the time comes.

[Graham W]

I have given up on my Suzuki for cruising and shoehorned a larger engine into my BR20.  Mercury/Mariner/Tohatsu make a range of 4-6hp outboards that are all the same size and weight and only differ in their tuning and price.  Apparently it is possible to retune a 4hp to turn it into a 6hp but that would be beyond my capabilities and I suspect would also invalidate the warranty.

To fit the engine under the tiller, it is necessary to elevate the rudder uphaul and downhaul lines by fitting new cheek blocks on the stainless fitting at the base of the tiller.  A Ronstan 20mm cheek block fits the existing tiller fixing screws, so there is no need to drill yet more holes (see photo below - the extra fairlead is optional).  And by fitting wooden wedges behind the engine clamp and adjusting the dropnose pin so that the shaft is still vertical (Matt's recommendation), the tilt mechanism works without fouling the rudder stock.

These engines weigh 26kg.  The extra weight on the stern can partly be balanced by placing the 12 litre external fuel tank in the bows, connected by a standard 12 foot fuel line.  There is also an integral fuel tank of 1 litre.  With a SailPower high thrust prop, this took me 6NM in 70 minutes, so in theory the external tank could take me across to Cherbourg!

Advantages over the little Suzuki? Far more thrust for much less noise, no flat spots or stalling, reverse gear, a gear lever on the front instead of hidden down the side and exceptional range. It also feels a lot more robust. It is possible to fit an alternator but that is probably a sophistication too far.  Full speed is about 6.5 knots, inconveniencing other boats with a giant wash and generating enough CO2 to melt a number of glaciers.  But it is fun to watch the self bailers generating bathtub vortices.

I understand that Yamaha do a similar range of outboards. No gear lever on the front and weighing 1kg more but unique in that it doesn't matter which side you lay them down.

I found out why Torqeedo electric motors have a non standard shaft which makes them too long to fit the BR engine bay - it is because their model plane-style prop blades are so long.  They had to lengthen the shaft so that waterline clearance of the top of the blade is a standard distance. The skeg is similarly lengthened to protect the bottom of the prop.

[Julian Swindell]

I moved from a 2.3HP Honda to a 6HP Tohatsu for all the same reasons. No fouling of the tiller on my Baycruiser, so presumably the layout is a bit different between the two boats. The little engine could do the job, I motored from the Isle of Wight to Poole with it, but it is when you have got to forge into a combined head wind and tidal stream that you really appreciate the extra power to get through. On a second trip back from the Solent, we managed to force our way through Hurst Narrows against the tide, which anyone who has tried it will realise is quite an achievement for a 6HP engine. It took well over half an hour to cover about quarter of a mile over the ground.
As you say, the gear lever on the front is great. Mine is on the side, so there must have been a model change. It is a pain having it down there when you are trying to brake with reverse.

[Tony]

If you see a secondhand Mariner 3.3hp 2-stroke - grab it ! Low maintainance, easy to live with, only weighs 13kg and pulls like a dray horse.
No reverse gear, though, and 2-strokes are banned from some fresh water lakes

[Jonathan Stuart]

I thought it worth resurrecting this thread to share my latest experiences of my Suzuki 2.5hp. I experienced the same flat spot/stalling as discussed above and at the end of the first season I asked the person doing the service to fix it. He metaphorically shrugged and said it was an issue with 4 strokes because of emissions regs, etc.

I learnt to work around the stalling although it remained a worry. I reported it again at last winter's service and on collecting the outboard the mechanic (same shop as before, different person) said it was fixed - replaced the carb under warranty and, I think, tweaked the mixture.

I was skeptical but after my first weekend using it since the service I have found it's true! Even when cold the flat spot/stalling has gone and I can increase throttle as quickly/hard as I want without issues. This was/is otherwise a lovely outboard so it's great to have this fixed.

[Graham W]

I have a used Suzuki DF2.5 for sale.  Given how critical I have been about it in the past and despite Jonathan's remedy for the flat spot, I don't feel that I can ask a great deal for it. Make me an offer by pm if you are interested.  I can bring it to Ullswater or Sail Caledonia, or failing those two, the Bala rally, where it can't be used (no petrol outboards allowed).