BR17

[Edwin Davies 2]

Good to see Matt mentioning the BR17 in the News. I am really looking forward to getting back to sailing with this boat.

[Edwin Davies 2]

If anyone goes to the Swallow stand at the boatshow please raise the subject of the BR17. So far I have two anchors some chain and lots of bits of rope.  News of this boat is long overdue .

[Brian Pearson]

Denham Marine seem to know a bit more. kits available in November!

http://www.denmanmarine.com.au/id66.html

[Edwin Davies 2]

Denman asked me what information I had on the BR17?  It seems they have 15 to 20 people interested in Aus.

[david doran]

Edwin, I emailed Matt about the BR17.  He told me that they hope to start production of kits in Jan/Feb of 2010.  and the possible price of a full kit might be around £4900 plus VAT. Neither price or date, I presume, is fixed in stone.  Hope that helps. If you have more info yourself, I be interested to here it as I am interested in the BR17 myself.  Regards DaveD.

[Edwin Davies 2]

Hi Dave thanks for the info. I have put a deposit on a complete BR17. I think that was in June. Have you seen the flyer for the BR17 Matt handed out at the Southhampton Boat Show? If not I can email you a copy. Find my email at www.lincsa7.co.uk Hopefully that means that Matt will start building BR17s in the new year. I have been looking at alternatives but nothing stands out. Quite liked the look of the Deben Lugger. My lovely wife keeps looking at my boat money, I think she has other uses for it. Our last boat was 16ft Orkney Longliner! fishing boat. At the moment I sail model racing yachts.  Ed

[Matt Newland]

Dear Edwin and co
The best way to get your new BR17 on time is to keep the pressure on, and you certainly know how to do that...
If your wife is eyeing up your "boat money" then I really had better make a start soon!

Seriously, the plan is still to start work on the first BR17s early in the new year (2010). I have deposits now for 3 boats, plus my own demo boat and I am confident that with the BR20 design to work from, the design process should not take too long. However, we have to get the design 100% right and that can take time, so I am deliberately not giving a firm completion date am afraid. We will do our best, but with a brand new design like this we can never be sure until she hits the water.

Thanks for all those showing interest. Some basic images attached. Keep badgering...

[Peter Ivermee]

I liked the look of the Deben Lugger too.  Then I looked at the video of the Deben Lugger capsize test, and the Bay Raider capsize test.... and now I own a Bay Raider

[Edwin Davies 2]

It is Christmas!

Ed

[Edwin Davies 2]

See         On The Drawing Board!

[Tony]

With “only” £1,000 between the Storm 19 (a very good boat) and the BayRaider 20 (a brilliant one) could a well priced BayRaider 17 kill off the delightful Storm 17?
Let's hope not....but I know which one I would choose.

For Info:-
Storm 17          £9,995
Storm 19          £11,995

BayRaider 17         £........... ?
BayRaider 20 GRP       £12,995
 
SeaRaider          £16,995


Any BR20 owners looking to down-size to a BR17?
I'll take the old thing off your hands if you like...or failing that... put a "For Sale" Ad. in CHASSE MAREE and see how long it takes for your cell phone to melt!

[Edwin Davies 2]

Do not forget to add VAT!

Ed

[Craic]

Which VAT?
This years? Next? Dutch? US (if any)? All?

The point Tony makes -I think- is that it is difficult to see a pricing slot for the BR 17 (WE, Wood+Epoxy) between the other boats.

I myself think it is difficult to find a slot for it at all. It is becoming a very large and somewhat puzzling range of different hulls, rigs, parts and boats. Must be difficult to explain to a prospect customer.
If you say the BR 20 ist The ALL-rounder for all sea areas and crew sizes (which it is), then what is the BR 17 to be called? Three-quarter?

[Julian Swindell]

Just to put in my bit on this. I suspect the BR 17 will prove enormously popular and probably will eventually oust the Storm 17. Double-enders are popular for their romantic, Norse-viking connotations, but I think a transom-ender will always prove more popular for general sailing. It gives more cockpit space and storage space. It probably allows an easier tiller/rudder arrangement. You can get in or out over the back without capsizing the boat. (That will always be popular with families and anyone who likes to jump in for a swim, like me.)
Having the choice of rigs and numbers of masts is sort of good, but I suspect that as Claus suggests, you want clearly defined products for marketing. Everyone knows what a Drascombe Lugger is, because they are all built the same. You either love them or hate them. If the BayRaiders have one mast or two, gunter or bermudian or lug sails, it could make it hard to estblish a clear brand.
I think within the next five years the Swallowboats line up will be:
Trouper 12
BayRaiders 15, 17 and 20
SeaRaider
Baycruisers 20 and 23
Storm 15, 17 and 19 as kits on request
Winsome pedal boat (I really want one of those on the Thames!)
What I think is lacking is a really small pram tender kit. I want to build one in the next year or so and would love to build a Swallow Pram, but at the moment the only thing I like is the Eastport Pram
http://www.fyneboatkits.com/trolleyed/4/122/125/index.htm

Matt is probably planning to go into GRP speed boats over the next 5 years.

[Edwin Davies 2]

Claus, I was just pointing out that the bare boat price is only part of the total cost of acquiring a new boat. Especially for new owners without all the bits to transfer between boats. Even the anchor I have is too big at 26 pounds.

Having decided to get back into sailing again I first started looking at a Drascombe Lugger! Then refined my choice to a BayRaider 20. Unfortunately it was a little larger than I would like and outside my personal price range. The 17 may be yet, we have only a vague idea of the price £10000 +.

 My first approach to Matt was to buy a Storm 17, he gently pointed me in the direction of a BR 17.  Assuming the increase in price is not too much, the benefits of the BayRaider specification make it a much more attractive boat. The water ballast and self draining cockpit are a big plus, as I expect to be sailing solo most of the time.

Why would I not want a Bayraider 20? I am 66 years old and prefer the idea of a smaller lighter boat and trailer.

I assume many of the fittings and gear from other Swallow boats will also be used on the BR 17. I do agree with Julian about the transom.

 I think the BayRaider specification is very strong part of the Swallow Boat brand and the 17 will, in my honest opinion, compliment the range, not complicate it. I just hope I end up with one. If not I will look for a second hand Dabber and make the best of it.