Rear Cabins

[Julian Swindell]

I think this deserves a new thread. I would love to see others ideas on a rear cabin and I shall spend the winter sketching out my own.
For a start, I think a better rig for a rear cabin might be like Nigel Irens Romilly. Then you could have a huge cockpit with the mizzen stuck on the rear end of the cabin.
http://www.nigelirens.com/FRAMEcruising.htm
If you want to have a look at some really eccentric stuff, including a rear cabin and fantasy sailing companions for old sailors, have a look here
http://www.yrvind.com/index.html
Matt must love it when we experts start telling him how to design boats

[Michael Rogers]

Julian, I am an old fogey, but could we possibly have 'stern' or 'after" cabins? I think it's a sad day when boats have rear ends. Am I starboard or am I port (as a nautical BFG might have said)?

[Julian Swindell]

I stand (or sit to be honest) corrected! Can I still call the cabin roof the poop deck, even if there isn't headroom to sit on it?

[Michael Rogers]

Please  feel free. I think a poop deck is brilliant, and highly nautical. Even if you can't sit on it, let alone stride across it au Hornblower/Aubrey, would there be room for a small brass cannon, for firing appropriate salutes while lying hove to and watching the sailing world go by? I'm sure the Commodores of all Yacht Clubs in the vicinity would be highly gratified. Do Classic Marine do cannons?

[Craic]

A stern cabin with a walkable roofdeck above it would probably be very nautical and scenic, but not be very clever.

Because the key benefit of a stern cabin would be that it could have a much lighter roof, because it would not have to be walked on. Unlike any forward cabin which needs a strong roof in order to support the main mast or to work on the mast or to walk to the bow across it to work the bow and anchor.

This is how the stern cabin idea came about: Old rowing lifeboats and modern Atlantic crossing rowboats use rather than a ballast keel a forward cabin plus a stern cabin for self-righting from a capsize. These chambers have so much buoyancy protruding above cockpit deck level, that a boat rolls back from a capsize even without having a ballast keel as such. The added benefit is that the crew sits quite protected in a central cockpit. Pretty or not, form follows function.

[Tony]

More on stern cabins....
The first diagram shows a BayRaider hull with a stern cabin superimposed. Note relatively large volume of cabin possible without reducing the size of the cockpit. Have to hang the outboard off the stern (ugh) or use some kind of electric drive. Forward position of the centreboard, or dagger board, (more usual with Junk-rigged sampans), would be balanced by a larger rudder than the usual high aspect ratio model fitted to BayRaiders.
With the main mast so well forward, to suit a balanced lug or junk rig, there would be no problem fitting a sprayhood to shelter the crew when making to windward. Minimal protection when you consider a major disadvantage of  stern cabins – as shown in the shot of Andreu Mateu s boat. In a storm, the cabins  windage holds the boat head to wind – no bad thing - but the hatch opens to windward!
Sean Moriarty s boat has a forward cabin, too,  which gives protection and bouyancy without increasing the windage too much. Incidentally, his boat has adjustable water ballast...see http://www.kerryrows.net/pages/boat.php

[Craic]

Here is another photo, of the standard RNLI self-righting lifeboat. 

Full story of her renovation with a photo of her with two masts up at http://www.polperro.org/lifeboat.html .

BTW, in the Swallowboats BayRaider is already another feature originally developed in the 30ties for lifeboats, the asymmetric capsize buoyancy.

[Tony]

Yet more on stern cabins;
This is GRATIS, a steam powered, aft cabin design found in an obscure corner of the Wooden Boats web site while looking for info on junk rigs...

http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=71730

.....not quite to my taste but Ive seen uglier boats.

[Julian Swindell]

So... You stand with the steering wheel behind you?
Apart from that, I think it has potential, but as Claus said, the forward facing cabin door is a problem.

[Craic]

... as Claus said, the forward facing cabin door is a problem.

Tony said that, I would say differently.
All houses, sheds and ships on this planet have doors to windward, at least part time. Not a real problem.

The good thing about a boat is you can change course a bit to avoid the door is facing windward when you want to use it. And when lying at anchor, hey, why not spread a cover between sprayhood and stern cabin? Super simple with a stern cabin and gives a huge dry space underneath.

[Tony]

(Julian)... as Claus said, the forward facing cabin door is a problem.

(Claus) .... Tony said that, I would say differently.

Not guilty!
I dont think a forward facing hatch is a problem either. You just need to be a bit careful opening it when making to windward. Most of the time it would simply be a welcome source of fresh air...especially during a Greek August.

I like the idea of a temporary hard top for expeditions....especially if you could whip it off and use it as a tender. A bit difficult to retro-fit something like that, perhaps, but a reluctance to have a permanent cabin on a small boat is understandable if you mostly daysail.....and dont have small, easily chilled kids with you. We could do worse than look at 19th Century pleasure boats. They had all sorts of hints and tricks such as lifting roof, folding sides, etc. All done with wood and canvas, too.

[Julian Swindell]

I should be working, but this is far more interesting. One problem with an aft cabin would be getting at the mizzen. The best solution to a problem is always to get rid of the problem. Rather than a yawl or ketch rig, how about a schooner? The mainmast could be stepped at the fore end of the cabin, maybe with a main sheet track across the cabin top. The smaller foremast could be stepped well forward in the cockpit. You could get at the luff of the main sail easily then, as well as any reefing lines. You may not need a jib at all. Would not look remotely like a current Swallow Boat, but could look very good. You should see Nigel Irens' gorgeous, now lost schooner Maggie B
http://schoonermaggieb.net/
Her replacement M2 should be even better. She has just been turned upright at the boatyard
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kvh8U6ofBqI
This is what she will look like, gorgeous:

[Michael Rogers]

Good, logical thinking, Julian, and clearly an opportunity to use modern Junk rig.

[Craic]

Guys,
the world is so small.
Matt and I were at the Enkhuizen Klassieke Schepen Show last week and up came this guy with a truly amazing small waterballasted popup stern cabin sailer.
Have a look yourself, cannot a stern cabin look sweet? Best solution I have seen in a long time.

[Craic]

Yet more on stern cabins;
This is GRATIS, a steam powered, aft cabin design found in an obscure corner of the Wooden Boats web site while looking for info on junk rigs...

http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=71730

.....not quite to my taste but Ive seen uglier boats.

Dear Tony,
well done digging up little GRATIS, thanks. As small as she is, the stern cabin looks fine on her.