Self bailers

[Michael Rogers]

Does anyone, in another (ie non-Swallowboats, obviously!) sailing context, have any experience and advice about fitting and using self bailers?

Yes, it's my Storm Petrel again: and I am very reluctant to go cutting a hole in the hull - sort of ouch. However, at the Teifi Rally last weekend we had some Sudden Weather. I had my son Seb, an experienced sailor, with me. Even before we could do a routine ten second reef of the junk rig, we shipped quite a lot of water (a combination of tippiness, low freeboard and no side decks), which Seb bailed out. However, he pointed out, in that stern and concerned way of adult sons who think their fathers are getting past some things, that had I been on my own (and most of my sailing is solo), I might have had great difficulty coping. And he's right. Hence bringing the subject here.

After a somewhat bemused survey of the (surprising) range of these gadgets on offer, I have identified two choices I first have to make: 1) how they work. I'm familiar with the usual sort of reversed lowerable shute and the water being sucked out. Seasure have a bailer, called The Super Suck (the name not exactly an aesthetic coup), which claims to be different by working on the Venturi principle and by operating at lower boat speeds: might be a consideration. ( I must say I thought the others worked on the Venturi principle too, but I was never any good at Physics.)  2) choice of an internal or external flange plate. I think I understand the difference, but not whether it makes any difference.

If anyone can offer words of wisdom and experience in this area, I would be most grateful.

Incidentally, in case anyone is interested, the junk rig is proving a brilliant success.

[Brian Pearson]

Michael, I will try and help. Not a straight forward issue.

Bailers are expensive, not easy to fit and very often leak a bit all the time, so there tends to be water in the bottom of the boat all the time.

Bailers are mainly useful when racing, lots of water coming over the foredeck up wind and with the bailer open the hull will empty on the next reaching leg.

If you dip a gunnel, or capsize then you really have to bail the boat so you can sail safely. You cannot just open the bailer and sail off.

I only capsized my Scow once, gybing too often down wind. I bailed a lot of water out, opened the bailer and set off. I thought the bow would go under as the water moved about. Stopped and bailed some more and then set off.

In fact if you are sailing with the bailer open and capsize or stop, the hull will be filling whilst you bail.

So in summary, bailer is for racing and keeping hull empty, as you race. Dipping a gunnel or capsize with a depth of water in the hull, has to be bailed out by hand or perhaps fit a proper bilge pump, so you can sit quietly and empty her controlling the boat with one hand and pumping with the other.

My son's Tammie Norrie had a good size bilge pump fitted under the thwart.

Hope this helps, Brian

[Paul Cross]

Michael
I was just about to reply with more or less the same points as Brian has above.

The way I see it, you are far more likely to take on water when there are two of you in the boat...so Seb's there to do the bailing anyway.

I would not want to cut a hole in your beautiful boat for a leaky device that is barely working at your usual hull speeds.

This has been discussed on this forum before btw...

http://www.swallowboats.co.uk/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,28/expv,0/topic,270.0

Incase you missed it

Regards
Paul

[Michael Rogers]

Brian and Paul

Thanks for sensible advice + encouragement NOT to hole my boat, which I think is what I wanted to hear. Also the link - I should have looked first.

An obvious step in the right direction is to have a larger bailer on board than the piddling little scoop (+ a spare of the same) I have at present. I think I could accommodate a small bucket, which would shift water at about 8 -10 times the rate with the scoop. A little thought could go into design of a handle which would allow one-handed bailing if I was sailing on my own (with the usual mainsheet-in-the-teeth sail handling).

[Michael Rogers]

Hi Folks

I don't suppose it's of much general interest, but just to put this rather short thread to bed, or tie a knot in it or whatever - I have installed a diaphragm pump (a Patay Skipper 60SD), instead of finding shipboard room for a bucket. The pump is on the forward side of the after bulkhead, and has a removable handle which stows in clips under the after thwart. Instead of a thrum box, the short length of suction hose attached to the inlet port, which lies across the bottom of the cockpit just under the watertight hatch into the locker under the after deck, has rows of holes drilled in its under surface and a wooden bung in its end. The outlet hose, kept coiled behind the body of the pump, just needs to be put over the gunwale. It's all worked out to be quite neat, and results of 'in vitro' tests (on the drive) were very good, removing (vigorously throwing out, actually) all but a quart or so of the water i poured into the boat. I won't relish an 'in vivo' swamping if/when it happens, but now feel equipped to cope, with or without crew to help. AND - no holes in the boat!!

Best wishes for the remainder of the season to everyone       Michael