Which outboard ?

[RogerLennard]

Hello,
I own a Suzuki 2.5hp four stroke outboard from when I had a Wayfarer. I intend to do some sailing on the sea with my BR20. Some of this will involve estuaries. My home sailing ground is a lake, where I am not allowed to try out my Suzuki on the BR20.
I'd like to know if the Suzuki will be enough or should I invest in a Yamaha 6hp? So far I have come up with reasons for using either engine. Can anyone please give their opinions to help me decide? What is the dealbreaker for you?

Keep the Suzuki 2.5hp because.....
Fits in the side locker for security.
Not too heavy.
I already have one.
Can be spun round to provide reverse thrust.

Buy a Yamaha 6hp
Extra power for pushing against tide and waves.
Bigger engine will take more strain for longer.
Can have a battery charging coil.
Has reverse gear.
Can use a remote tank.

Thank you for any help you can give.

Roger

[garethrow]

Hi Roger

I suspect there will be a variety of opinions on this! However, from my perspective: I sail mainly on the Teifi Estuary and surrounding sea where I am often alone - so self reliant, the tidal race in the narrows can be 3 or even 4 knots, I am not an engineer and prefer bits of string and canvas to engines which always seem to go wrong at some point. So  I want something that is as reliable as possible and has enough 'grunt' to push me against tide and wind when I may be tired and wet and have a decent range to make a passage without having to stop to fill up.

On my Storm 17 I had a Honda 2.3 4 stroke which I quite liked (despite my aversion to all things mechanical) because it is air cooled and thus removes one of the common problems of small outboards (blocked water cooling / defunct impeller). However, my wooden Storm weighed around 225kg whereas the GRP BR20 is around 500kg without the ballast in, 800kg with ballast. With such a big weight differnce and the requirements of my particular estuarine environment I concluded that something bigger would be required with a remote tank in the side locker and ordered the Yamaha 6hp with the boat. I could have got away withe 4hp Yamaha which I understand is the same engine with a different 'chip' but the yard had a 6hp in stock on offer so I went with that as it's no heavier. I did seriously consider going electric for all the many advantages of silence, relability and ease of starting, but concluded that at present they do not have enough 'grunt' to satisfy my particular requirements. Hopefully one day they will do at a price that is not too ridiculous. In the meantime, although I probably don't use it more than 10 hours a year I always get it properly serviced over winter and always use Apen type fuel to imporove my chances of it working when I want it. I also flush it with fresh water for 2 or 3 mins after every use using the Yamaha attachment in the bottom inlet 'wash' port with engin running.

Hope this helps

Regards

Gareth Rowlands
GR{ BR20 Halen Y Mor

[Graham W]

Whichever engine you decide on, if it gets very little use I suggest that like Gareth, you avoid supermarket E10 petrol and only use Aspen distillate fuel - like upmarket petrol but without the dreaded Ethanol.  That way, you can be fairly sure of avoiding blocked carburettor misery, which always seems to strike at the worst possible time.  Expensive but worth it.

That said, I’m electric these days, having had both a Suzuki 2.5 and a Mariner 6, at one point both at the same time.  I got rid of the Suzuki first.

[Sea Simon]

Fuel.
As GW/garethrow say, fuel choice and management is critical, imho. Plenty of posts about it here already.

This year, as doing longer and more frequent runs in tender out to my new mooring, have been buying a fresh gallon of supermarket finest (hereabouts now only E5 available, sadly) monthly. Treating half with fuel stabiliser and using that in Honda 2.3. Remaining half gallon goes in the car, after 3 weeks or so. Any residual at end of month also goes in car. This seems to work for me....ATM.

I started doing this as local supplier had increased Aspen price to £36 for 5l! And I was using a gallon in < 4 weeks.
I now use Aspen only if intending to leave engine unused for a week or more.

Power.
My Honda 2.3 (excellent wee motors, my 2nd, I agree with garethrow) just manages my mini-dory (2 man, more easily driven than an inflatable)  tender in a strongly tidal estuary. The river runs N-S  and in wind over tide type conditions  (choppy) fully loaded with two plus luggage  the motor not only struggles to make speed, but chugs down fuel. Too small engine, working hard.

Worth knowing that a pal who uses a similarly  sized inflatable, on similar duty, with an early Torqueedo struggles for range in similar conditions.

Imho you won't  regret the bigger motor. Just be very sure to manage your fuel carefully. To that end, strongly recommend NOT filling long range tank with ordinary fuel as a matter of routine.
I used to keep a gallon of Aspen in mine in the BRe as an emergency backup, while using managed petrol in the top tank for normal running about. Changing over to Aspen when a layup period was anticipated.

Buy a very good quality outboard motor lock and security is probably as good as hidden in a locker? (MOTORLOC EXCELLENT)
https://outboardmotorlocks.co.uk/pages/slot-locks/95

Charging coil. Have not been convinced that these are really worth having on small auxiliaries. You need to run at relatively high revs for extended periods to produce meaningful charge. That said, if available as an option on a new motor for a small premium, why not?  I didn't have one on my Honda 5 as it was only available  "special order", so delaying delivery and disproportionately increasing price (no discounts).
Similarly with 4,5,6 HP motors that are the same size/weight unit but with different  carbs. If reasonably available, recommend  getting the more powerful version.

Fwiw, similar travails now beginning with the new "green" diesel sh1t used in bigger boat, so now doing preventive dosing with Marine 16 treatment at £25/500 ltrs.

[RogerLennard]

A big thank you for those very extensive and comprehensive answers. It sounds like a bigger engine would make a lot of sense and the extra investment could be life-saving. Your advice on fuel is also invaluable. No point in having a good engine with poor fuel that would prevent it from working.

Best regards

Roger

[Llafurio]

I am using Suzuki 2.5s since 2005. I never had one failing. My only routine is to run the carb bowl empty dry before every winter lay-up. I am using the cheapest petrol available in the village.

The Suzi gives the boat hull speed, is cheap, and is so lightweight it doesn't ruin the sail. It's also so lightweight I can lift it in and out of the boat myself without help.
When going about and abroad, I always take the Suzi, instead of the e-Prop Spririt, because I know I will have all the range I need from the Suzi. With a bit of noise, but without range anxiety.

I also have one Mariner 5 and one Yamaha 6, fine engines, mostly for fishing, and I love them for their power, and relative quietness at low revs, but their weight overwhelms sailing the BR and BRe properly, and is a real nightmare for me to get into and out of the boat and up and down a stepladder.

I enjoy having a choice of different engines, and they all serve their individual purpose well, but if I had to choose one single most universally useful and versatile engine, for the BRs, it would be the Suzi 2.5, no question.
CR

[Sea Simon]

Llafurio, question please.

What types of petrol and proportions of Ethanol,  "E numbers" are currently available in RoI? Germany?

[Llafurio]

In Ireland, standard "regular" petrol had 5% Ethanol until May 2023, and has 10% since then.
In Germany, it's with 10 % Ethanol since some time before, that is EU standard.

I run all outboards with that, and a lot of farm machinery (2- and 4-stroke), never any real problem with starting the engines or with the engine carburettors or nozzles clogging up, also when left unused for months, over winter.

Only, the flexible PVC fuel suction hoses in some cheap non-Stihl chainsaws and strimmers do get brittle and need to be replaced after approx. two years, no big deal.
Fuel lines of all outboards and of the professional machinery are not affected by the E5/E10.

From my experience, I have no reason to be worried about the quality and stability of E5/E10 regular petrol.

But talking about fuel in general, I once had a fungus growing in the Diesel tank of a digger. That WAS a headache.

[Sea Simon]

Thanks L.
RoI much the same as us then?

Not sure if you've been lucky, or we hereabouts (it's  not just me) have been unlucky!
My issues have not been "dissolving parts" (some pals have seen this with cheap garden tools and classic cars) more carb failures, blocked jets, sticky gummed up etc.
Older 2T outboards seem OK. I'm  told this is because of more lax emissions standards, hence more "robust" carbs. Later/larger fuel injected outboards also seem to be less problematic?

My 2 stroke Stihl garden machines have been OK, and I often use them to burn my "rubbish/reject petrol", some seems to burn fine in my 2005 Ford Focus "crapmobile" (Fi, ULEZ compliant), but I keep it away from the newer/better cars.

[Llafurio]

... Not sure if you've been lucky, or we hereabouts (it's  not just me) have been unlucky! ...

I am quite sure "luck" doesn't really come in when dealing with any kind of machinery. But if it does, good maintenance can improve one's odds significantly.

[TheOldDuffer]

I went for the Yamaha 6hp on the recommendation of Swallow yachts despite having a newish Suzuki 2.5 in the shed, given that you can get strong tidal streams during springs along Ireland's East coast. The only problem I've had with petrol was with the Suzuki 2.5 when I left petrol in the tank for over a year. When I drained the carb, it came out like brown treacle. As far as I'm concerned I don't think the addition of ethanol can have any bearing on the longer chain hydrocarbons contained in forecourt petrol and responsible for brown treacle syndrome.

[Llafurio]

...The only problem I've had with petrol was with the Suzuki 2.5 when I left petrol in the tank for over a year. When I drained the carb, it came out like brown treacle. ...

Again, the trick is NOT to leave any petrol in the carburettor bowl chamber when you lay the engine up.

You do that by running the engine in fresh water with the tank valve closed. When the engine starts to slow and shudder, you pull the choke briefly, and the engine will come back on for a few seconds. Repeat that until the choke no longer answers. After that you have a dry carburettor, and you can put the engine into hibernation. It will come back with fresh petrol and no problem, next year.

BTW, re the resilience of the Suzuki 2.5, I had some extraordinary experience this year.: My engine got submerged, in sea water, for 24 hours. After recovery from submersion, it was left unattended for 10 days, presumed "dead" by all. I then gave it to the small engines expert in the village, just in case, and he brought it back to healthy life without major ado. Amazing. (Thanks, René!)
CR

[TheOldDuffer]

I now drain the carb by opening the screw at the bottom of the bowl at any lay up. After my 'brown treacle' event, I flushed through with fresh fuel from the tank to the drain screw; there was some brownish fuel in the tube. The engine fired up immediately, so I took it that there was no gunge in the jet.