Author Topic: Stuff for fairing  (Read 15392 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Michael Rogers

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 714
Stuff for fairing
« on: 21 Jun 2011, 10:48 »
Jeremy contributes, very valuably, both to this forum and the UK HBBR one. On one or other (i've been searching - can't find it again! Help, Jeremy?) he was recently extolling the properties of West Microlight filler (410) for fairing. Perusing the technical stuff on the West website recently, I came across a warning that solvents in paints have an adverse effect on 410 (by implication, not on the other West fillers in the same way), and that areas faired with 410 therefore need to be sealed with epoxy resin before painting. I don't recall Jeremy mentioning this, and thought it would be worth flagging up in case it becomes relevant for anyone's build.

And talking of fairing, has anyone any experience and views on using car filler instead of epoxy for fairing?

(SP Cadenza, and T12 in build)

Anthony Huggett

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 212
Re: Stuff for fairing
« Reply #1 on: 21 Jun 2011, 12:31 »
From memory, Matt's instruction only recommend car body filler above the waterline. I haven't got to the fairing stage yet, so have no experience to offer.

Jeremy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 54
Re: Stuff for fairing
« Reply #2 on: 21 Jun 2011, 15:01 »
I've used a lot of 410 over the years and not had a problem with paint solvents, but have to say that I've not used every type of paint going over the stuff.  I know that the mix of 105/205 resin and 410 is perfectly OK with automotive acrylic and cellulose spray paint, both International Perfection and automotive 2 pack polyurethanes and most one pack paints that use toluene or white spirit as the principal solvent.  A friend reported that it initially softened very slightly when painted with Polyfiber Polytone, a vinyl-based aircraft paint that uses MEK as a solvent, but that's the only case I've heard of a problem and to be honest I put that down to the MEK softening the epoxy, rather than a problem with 410 itself.  Even then the surface hardened back up as the solvent evaporated, with no obvious sign that there had been a problem.

In practice, the 410 is fairly well coated in epoxy when you apply it, especially if just using it as a very thin fairing coat, applied fairly wet with a squeegee.  My guess is that West are covering themselves because one or two people have had a paint problem!  My advice would be to try a sample with the paint you intend to use and see if it causes a problem.

The only issue I have with 410 is that if it is applied as a stiff mix filler in a fairly thick layer it always traps air bubbles and these manifest themselves as pinholes in the surface.  If applied fairly wet as a very thin fairing coat this tends not to be such a big problem, but if the coat is more than just a nafigravit thick I tend to play safe and put a coat of Polyfiber UV Smoothprime over it.  This is a water-based urethane primer that fills even the smallest pinholes perfectly, and is compatible with just about any paint finish you want to put on it.  The downsides are that it isn't cheap and it takes several days to harden.

Filling larger voids is best done with microballoons and epoxy, just finishing off with a thin skim of 410 over the top.  This gets around the problem of air entrapment that makes thicker layers of 410 prone to pinholes to a large degree.

Car filler is not at all good on boats in my experience.  The first boat I restored around 25 years or more ago (when I was poor and couldn't afford epoxy!) was faired with body filler and it performed badly.  It was OK on areas that weren't immersed, but was very susceptible to swelling and blistering below the water line.  I later found out that the polyester resin binder in body filler isn't very resistant to moisture and the filler powder used is talc, which sucks up water like a sponge.  The net result is that you get a combination of osmosis and swelling from water absorption of the filler powder, which causes the stuff to blister.

Jeremy

PS:  I'm typing this whilst waiting for a new composite prop tunnel to cure, so actually have hands covered in sticky blobs of 105/205 right now..............

Michael Rogers

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 714
Re: Stuff for fairing
« Reply #3 on: 06 Aug 2011, 19:28 »
A request for information from Jeremy, please Jeremy!

Re your last contribution to this thread, do you have a UK source of Poly Fiber UV Smooth Prime? Googling didn't work very well, even when I added in 'UK'. A few US sites - it seems to be an aviation 'thing' - mention gallon cans (typical transatlantic mega-helpings: or large aircraft, I suppose). Do you know what quantities it comes in? That actually means, how little can I get!

(SP Cadenza + T12 in build)

Jeremy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 54
Re: Stuff for fairing
« Reply #4 on: 07 Aug 2011, 16:59 »
There are two sources I know of for quart cans of smooth prime, either Aircraft Coverings Ltd at Henstridge (ask for Tony): http://www.aircraftcoverings.co.uk or Aircraft Spruce and Speciality: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/09-28290.php whose products can be ordered in the UK via Light Aero Spares down in Devon: http://www.lasaero.com/site/part/details?part=09-28280&quicksearch=09-28280 .

Aircraft coverings web site is useless, so you really need to ring Tony and find out the price and stock level.  My guess is that Tony's price will be higher than that from Light Aero, so you may be better off ordering from them (their service is excellent if they have the stuff in stock).

Jeremy

Michael Rogers

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 714
Re: Stuff for fairing
« Reply #5 on: 08 Aug 2011, 09:00 »
Thanks, Jeremy. Very grateful. As is often the case, it's a matter of knowing where to look, and you obviously do!

Steve Joyce

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 111
Re: Stuff for fairing
« Reply #6 on: 24 Sep 2011, 18:16 »
Finally got fed up of breaking pieces of plywood for the outboard well coaming.  although I was quite enjoying the nice satisfying snap,  I have run out of long thick strips of ply to make replacements for.

Have got around this by making the curved part out of layers of glass tape and epoxy.  Had a dustpan which made the perfect mould. 

I know,  that's cheating,  but.....

(got the wrong thread . been one of those days.)
Storm 15 "Robin"