Swallow Yachts Forum > Technical
Bayraider modifications Mk II
Graham W:
Being the one who originally asked Claus to post his list of suggested modifications and improvements, I feel that the discussion on these is worth continuing, albeit under circumstances that will now generate more light than heat. Hence the new thread.
Personally, I found the list useful as a checklist or wish list. Since I came back to the UK permanently a few weeks ago, I have spent many happy days (or actually weeks) doing stuff to my BR and then testing the mods to see how far I have messed them up. So far, so good and I reckon I have done at least half the things on Claus's list, for no great cost in terms of materials but plenty of cost if my time is included. But as I said, I have enjoyed it. I am currently making a new jib boom out of carbon spars that will allow me to fly both the standard jib and the spinnaker off the same spar and perhaps, in due course, to have the option of using a larger foresail, when circumstances allow. This would have standard sheeting (see Alf’s latest post in the topmast stiffness thread) to take full advantage of the slot effect. Well, that is the idea anyway.
Turning to some of Claus’s suggestions, I have the following comments and queries, mainly because I do not believe these ideas have been aired before or perhaps I have missed them:
--- Quote from: Claus Riepe on 20 Jun 2011, 21:02 ---Tabernacle bolt holes oblong enough to give full mast raking play.
--- End quote ---
I am not sure I understand this suggestion but as it is under the heading of must-haves, it must be important. Claus, can you expand on this?
--- Quote from: Claus Riepe on 20 Jun 2011, 21:02 ---Keel strips surrounding centreboard swivelling pin bolted through.
--- End quote ---
This must involve drilling up into the ballast tank. I have not checked accessibility (it is chucking it down here) but presumably having done the easy bit, it is possible to reach through one or other of the waterproof hatches to install penny washers or similar and secure the nuts?
--- Quote from: Claus Riepe on 20 Jun 2011, 21:02 ---Strengthen lower rudder hinge bolt
--- End quote ---
Why and in what way?
--- Quote from: Claus Riepe on 20 Jun 2011, 21:02 ---Deflector plate under hull to prevent centreboard case from scooping and fountaining
--- End quote ---
The centreboard slot generates quite a lot of turbulence at speed but has anybody successfully suppressed it yet? There was a thread a while back that suggested using slot strip daggerboard gaskets from Seamark Nunn. I would have thought that these would be vulnerable to being ripped off when taking the ground and anything more substantial (like a forward deflector plate) would simply get bent every time the boat is loaded on to the trailer.
Claus’s suggestions centre on seaworthiness and the majority of them have been aired before, over quite a period of time, and I think were generally accepted as helpful. I have certainly found them so.
However, if you look at the number of views per thread in this forum, some of the more popular ones concern topics such as swimming, keeping out of the rain and sleeping. Which suggests to me that there are quite a large number of potential SB buyers out there who want to relax rather than rush around (or perhaps do the one after the other). Which leads me to my own must-have: the option of a tailor-made tent for a BR (or expedition version thereof) that can be sealed against Scottish midges and Greek mosquitoes. Boom awnings are good in the absence of these pests and fine midge netting (on its own) works when the weather permits but how often is this the case in Scotland? And I hear that the mosquitoes in Sweden (summer 2012) are only one size down from hornets.
Craic:
--- Quote from: Graham W on 21 Jun 2011, 14:19 ---
--- Quote from: Claus Riepe on 20 Jun 2011, 21:02 ---Tabernacle bolt holes oblong enough to give full mast raking play.
--- End quote ---
I am not sure I understand this suggestion but as it is under the heading of must-haves, it must be important. Claus, can you expand on this?
: The earliest boats had the tabernacle through holes so tight the mast prized the tabernacle (and in my case the foredeck) up from the understructure when sailing hard before the wind. After alerting the yard the holes were filed more open (oval), but on several boats I have gotten involved with in the past still to small to allow full mast forward raking play. On some fairly recent boats (including my own second BR) boats have difficulty to prevent the jib clubboom from scraping the foredeck. When I told them their mast was raked too far aft, they told me they cannot rake it any more forward. The forward rake of the mast is indeed limited by the tabernacle holes if not long oval enough on the upper side. Once understood by the owner this can be mended quickly and at no cost by filing the holes more open, but as the tabernacle is made from heavy stainless steel material that takes some doing.
--- Quote from: Claus Riepe on 20 Jun 2011, 21:02 ---Keel strips surrounding centreboard swivelling pin bolted through.
--- End quote ---
This must involve drilling up into the ballast tank. I have not checked accessibility (it is chucking it down here) but presumably having done the easy bit, it is possible to reach through one or other of the waterproof hatches to install penny washers or similar and secure the nuts?
: This was discussed in http://www.swallowboats.co.uk/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,52/expv,0/topic,336.0 , and this was btw one of the cases where a discussion on this open forum did yield a prompt result. Still, there still will be boats out there without this simple but effective modification.
--- Quote from: Claus Riepe on 20 Jun 2011, 21:02 ---Strengthen lower rudder hinge bolt
--- End quote ---
Why and in what way?
: In my neighbourhood and on one boat I helped sell myself, the lower rudder hingeing bolt had sheared off. I have no explanation, the guys told me they never hit an underwater object. In any case, that was nasty. That bolt is threaded all the way. In engineering you learn that bolts subject to shear should not have thread in the area subject to shearing force. It is difficult for owners to get a partly threaded s/s bolt of that required length.
--- Quote from: Claus Riepe on 20 Jun 2011, 21:02 ---Deflector plate under hull to prevent centreboard case from scooping and fountaining
--- End quote ---
The centreboard slot generates quite a lot of turbulence at speed but has anybody successfully suppressed it yet? There was a thread a while back that suggested using slot strip daggerboard gaskets from Seamark Nunn. I would have thought that these would be vulnerable to being ripped off when taking the ground and anything more substantial (like a forward deflector plate) would simply get bent every time the boat is loaded on to the trailer.
: It suffices to have a small copper tin sheet of approx. 4" x 3" neatly sikaflexed and screwed fast over that large gaping opening underneath in front of the centreboard between the two stainless steel keel strips. Should be copper as it needs to be soft and flexible there as the trailer keel rollers impress on it during launching and retrieving. But works a mint. (Also protecting the echosounder transponder inside the centreboard case groove there.)
--- End quote ---
Since my long involvement I have become some kind of agony aunt not just for boats I myself helped sell one way or another. People still mail and phone me up when they have such problems or questions. Hence my information and interest.
Claus Riepe
Peter Cockerton:
--- Quote from: Claus Riepe on 21 Jun 2011, 20:22 ---
--- Quote from: Graham W on 21 Jun 2011, 14:19 ---
--- Quote from: Claus Riepe on 20 Jun 2011, 21:02 ---Tabernacle bolt holes oblong enough to give full mast raking play.
--- End quote ---
I am not sure I understand this suggestion but as it is under the heading of must-haves, it must be important. Claus, can you expand on this?
: The earliest boats had the tabernacle through holes so tight the mast prized the tabernacle (and in my case the foredeck) up from the understructure when sailing hard before the wind. After alerting the yard the holes were filed more open (oval), but on several boats I have gotten involved with in the past still to small to allow full mast forward raking play. On some fairly recent boats (including my own second BR) boats have difficulty to prevent the jib clubboom from scraping the foredeck. When I told them their mast was raked too far aft, they told me they cannot rake it any more forward. The forward rake of the mast is indeed limited by the tabernacle holes if not long oval enough on the upper side. Once understood by the owner this can be mended quickly and at no cost by filing the holes more open, but as the tabernacle is made from heavy stainless steel material that takes some doing.
As a partial counterbalance to this i would like to report that Bayraider 22 has had no such problem. Did Swallow Boats remedy your damage at no cost. Perhaps other Bayraider owners would like to comment here if this issue was evident on their boats.
--- End quote ---
--- End quote ---
Graham W:
In the 5 weeks that I have been back in the UK, I have spent many happy hours modifying and improving my BayRaider. Here is my purely subjective list, in descending order of success and satisfaction, of what I have done so far:
1. Extended carbon jib/spinnaker boom with adjustable track, adjustable bobstay, speedy conversion to bowsprit, new jib and spinnaker control arrangements
2. Tacticks wind speed and direction system
3. Water ballast system with air vent, emptying through multiple bungs into sump
4. Improved sump self bailers
5. Sump bilge pump
6. Tiller tamer and central steering system
7. Rudder ladder system
8. Secure cooking stove system
9. Ratchet blocks for spinnaker sheets
10. Simple mainsheet traveller using spinnaker sheet ratchet blocks
11. Upgraded blocks at masthead
12. Bigger 12v battery and improved wiring
13. Topping lift with ability to secure topmast horizontally to mizzen mast
14. Navlights on stemhead and mizzen top
15. Mast gallows
16. Waterproofed lockers + catches to hold lids open
17. Transparent ballast tank hatch + water level indicator
18. Boom awning
19. Topmast pigstick holder and pennants
20. Large folding eye for safety harness hooks
21. Netting ballast tank fridge for keeping drinks cool
22. Bespoke loo seat!
Only the first two involved serious outlays of cash. Most of them have been suggested by other forum members (especially Claus) over the past couple of years.
There are two items that I would rank as completely useless so far, as I have not yet managed to get them to work properly:
Scullmatix sculling oar installation on stern
Spinnaker snuffer (but in any case the new jib/spinnaker boom makes spinnaker handling much easier)
Still to come:
Stiffer topmast
Centreboard and rudder protection strips
Centreboard slot deflector
What favourite modifications do other forum members have? And what Scullmatix-type abject failures are they prepared to own up to?
David:
--- Quote from: Graham W on 27 Jun 2011, 09:19 ---I Here is my purely subjective list, in descending order of success and satisfaction, of what I have done so far:
15. Mast gallows
What favourite modifications do other forum members have? And what Scullmatix-type abject failures are they prepared to own up to?
--- End quote ---
Hi Graham
I am a bit unclear what number 15 is; do you have trouble with your crew over there!
So far I have made some neat little bags that sit just under the rollock block to hold the jib and mizzen sheets as I got sick of them getting caught in the hatches every time I closed them.
The weather for tomorrow looks good and I hope to try out my new self steering system.
I bought a hand pump to empty out my ballast if the wind drops and I don't want to start to motor. It takes about 10 minutes to pump out.
I have a couple of other items which I need to see how they go after my first camping trip
Cheers
David
Little Ripple
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