Sanding by hand

[Steve Joyce]

Maybe I'm a bit wierd but I don't find sanding too difficult at all.  The power sander is ok for larger flat areas but I have found doing it by hand relatively easy.
One trick I learned when sanding skirting boards with spiky carpet grips in place was to get a bit of plywood and glue some sandpaper to it to make a custom sanding block.  Carrying this over to the boat,  where there is a tricky bit such as around the front bulkhead coaming,  you can knock up a sander exactly the right size and sand it off in a few seconds.

[Anthony Huggett]

Thanks for the useful tip. Do you use a fast curing glue to stick the paper on the block?

I have to say, the random orbital sander is probably the one power tool I couldn't be without for my build (BR17). It's better than OK for flat areas, it's essential. For instance, I spent last weekend on the floor which has about 10 feet of glass scarf joints both sides, and sanding them flat took 5 hours in total, using 60 grit on a ROS. I think I'd still be there doing it by hand! I also used it for smoothing the epoxy coated plywood, and to correct a slight misalignment of some of the finger joints. And don't even think about sanding glass fibre without a dust mask. I had prickles in my hands and legs - I really would not like that in my lungs!

[Steve Joyce]

Glad to come up with something useful (for a change).  I just use evo stik to glue the paper on. When it wears out,  just stick some more over the top.
Next plan is to make a rounded version to sand off the fillet joints.
It's also good to have a use for all of those bits of plywood lying around.

[Michael Rogers]

Hi Steve

I'm really quite distressed that you can't come and do my sanding for me (you can't, can you? Cheshire?? - only joking), as you seem to enjoy it (de gustibus non disputandum est). Thanks for your tip, I'll try it. Any idea about the spikes (literally - bloomin' tough) of epoxy which, I find anyway, it's impossible to avoid entirely when gunking on, and - sod's law-wise - tend to end up in tight corners where they need to be dealt with but are difficult to reach? In my experience they just rip sandpaper, however applied.

On a related topic, one thing I find disheartening is making a neat job of fairing, eg of outside-of-hull tape lines. It was the hardest and least satisfactory aspect of my previous build (2003 -04, Storm Petrel) and I'm hoping to do better this time round. Has anyone any infallible tips? A "boat beauty" column in "Water Craft" might help - " A beautiful body - 50 tips for a slinky build". Get writing, you guys.

(SP Cadenza and T12 in build)

[Anthony Huggett]

Regarding spikes of epoxy in tough corners, how about a chisel? You can normally cut off the spike, just leaving a high spot to sand. And sometimes if the blob wasn't bedded in to the substrate it can come clean off. I've used this successfully recently.

The other thing that might work (and credit to Andrew Denman for sharing this) is heat. Perhaps heat up a metal scraper (it only has to get the epoxy to 70 or 80 degrees for it to start to soften. Apparently when it cools doen again it is as strong as ever (which is just as well, given the heat generated by sanding). I haven't tried this one though.

[Andrew Denman]

Hi Michael,

Plenty of good fairing information in the attached WEST System publication.

regards,

Andrew

[Michael Rogers]

Thanks, very useful advice (esp the link, Andrew - everything I need to know!). I've no excuse now.

Anthony, I was no great shakes at school carpentry lessons (very many moons ago), but I do remember having drummed into me that there are some things you do NOT do with a chisel, and I think what you have (very helpfully) suggested would be proscribed by that school of thought. Nevertheless I will dedicate one of my chisels to epoxy-spike demolition, ignore the chisel's screams of pain, and try to restore it on my sharpening wheel etc once my boat is afloat. And I might just try Andrew's heat approach as well.

(SP Cadenza + T12 in build)

[Anthony Huggett]

I have to say, I'm not proud of the state of my chisels. I need to get them reground on a wheel before using them for anything proper. But actually, I'm suggesting using it to cut through a plastic which is as hard as very hard wood, so I don't think it's grossly abusing the tool.

I'd like to second your thanks to Andrew.

[Steve Joyce]

Although I am enjoying the build process,  I think I will pass on a trip to Cheshire,  for a bit of extra curricular sanding (sorry Michael).

Re my tip on making bespoke sanding sticks,  I have found that the paper is much less likely to tear when it's stuck to a bit of plywood.  I think with spikes, prevention is better than cure,  so always try to have a quick wipe round with a brush to knock any down before they set.

Biggest problem I have is that most face masks make my specs steam up so I can't see what I am doing.

[Michael Rogers]

Never for a moment, Steve, did I expect you even to comment on my flippant invitation. But it is fun, this build business. (Frustrating too, at times.)

My swallows (see separate thread) have timed their second brood so that, when I want to be working inside the hull on the bottom, there is an intermittent rain not only of bird poo but assorted flies - some rather weird-looking (nest parasites?) - and, of all things, maggots. Charming. Living conditions in the nest for the four fledglings must be insanitary, to put it mildly, and I hope will prove a powerful incentive for them to get airborne asap.

Back to sanding - has anyone any experience of RB406 J-Flex? Axminster describe it as 'the ultimate abrasive' (they would, wouldn't they: as the old lady remarked of some product many years ago -'it must be good, even the adverts speak well of it'), and I am trying the 80 grit. I must say I'm impressed. It's a bit like old-fashioned emery paper (but the abrasive is Al oxide), but the cloth-like backing is much more flexible, and it seems to last well. I guess it might come into its own for sanding fillets, and I will have quite a yardage of those to smooth shortly. Any comments from experience?

[Michael Rogers]

Me again

Further to my post above, three further brief (as Polonius said) comments -

1) It's five little swallowlets, not four. I can't count, and they were good at hiding in the nest. Now they are out and about, but still choosing, together with their parents who should know better, to shit on my boat build, which is irksome. I suppose there is now a race against time, and after flies etc, to get strong enough to fly to Africa - amazing. And we'll see at least some of them again next year, which is doubly amazing. And by then I hope my Trouper will be finished. And that is three sentences in a row which start with a conjunction. Which won't do.

2) Andrew D is, of course, quite right and a useful bloke to have around on the forum - judicial use of heat is extremely useful. My new hot air gun is worth having. Variable heat, rather than fixed settings, is the thing to have.

3) I continue to be VERY impressed by the RB406 J-Flex sand'paper' which I mentioned. In fact, I have invested in a 10 metre roll, which should meet my 80 grit needs way beyond this boat-build. Apropos your bespoke sanding sticks, Steve, I think you would have a job to tear this stuff: and it lasts and lasts.

[Steve Joyce]

have you thought of feeding the birds with epoxy,  and letting them do the coating for you?

[Michael Rogers]

You're obviously a lateral thinker, Steve - or should that be vertical?

I think avian constipation might be a problem; unless I used slow hardener, of course. Also, the little blighters seem not to have heard of flight paths or flight control. Actually, their aero-agility is fantastic. They have the most amazing air brakes; and drop off a perch with wings folded, to swoop out into the open. Beautiful little things. They've almost left me in peace now, boat building-wise. Pre-coating everything with epoxy at the start was unexpectedly helpful in that bird poo wipes off an epoxied surface easily with no staining or surface damage.

So this will be my last swallow bulletin for Swallow Boats. Next year, if I am able to keep my new boat under cover (some unresolved competition for the space from household equine interests), I shall have to give some thought to some sort of canopy for the swallows to keep above. Sufficient unto the day ......

[Terry Cross]

Steve
If you can spare a day away from your sanding and would like a sail on IONA before you wet the bottom of yours, give me a ring on 01270 522251 or terrycross@martexmarine.com

[Steve Joyce]

thanks for the kind offer Terry,  I will bear it in mind.