Swallow Boats Association?

[Simon Knight]

Hi All,

I would like to add my support to the formation of an association and I like the general principle of keeping it as simple as possible.  A web site with forum would be a great place to start.

best wishes

Simon
BR Carpe Diem

[Clem Freeman]

My vote would be for a non association association.

[Andy Dingle]

I too would like to associate myself with a non-association association..!!

But hang on a mo, haven't we already got a website with an excellent forum that successfully imparts information to all.. Or will we just end up moving this forum to another website and distancing ourselves from Matt and the team at Swallow Boats?

I appreciate that Matt moderates this forum and maybe that's not such a good idea - he could prevent us from posting negative comments about his products etc - but so far he has always welcomed any feed back.

I don't know, just a thought is all..


Andy BR12 Psalter

[Jonathan Stuart]

That's a good point and although we're keeing this association a non-assiciation association :-) based around a website, we need to try to keep all the things beyond a forum that an association provides....events, publications (albeit electronic), information, etc. Even on the forum, and without any disrespect to Matt, I get frustrated on this forum about the Safari warning messages (OK, avoided if I use IE but) and there are a few other issues, so we could be doing Matt a favour if we can maintain and moderate an association forum to take some of the load.

Jonathan

[Colin Morley]

I have read all this discussion with interest. This is what I would like:

The opportunity to meet up and sail with all you keen and knowledgeable Swallow boats sailors. To see how you have your boats set up and how they sail.

Who would organise it?  Anyone who wants to, in their part of the country at their sailing club or venue. It could be just for a day or a weekend. Very informal.

I will have my BR at Emsworth in Chichester Harbour for a week from March 21st so it would be great to have a get together of any one around. I will be busy at the W/E doing an RYA powerboat course so it will have to be a weekday.

I will be at Dale in Milford Haven for a week from May 9th. Perhaps one or two will be near there

I agree that this forum is a great place for exchanging information but there is nothing like seeing the boats and meeting the people.

Happy plotting and planning.

[Peter Cockerton]

The forum run by Matt at Swallow Boats provides a plethora of usefull information and a vehicle to raise topics openly positive or negative concerning Swallow Boats. Matt is to be applauded on proviving this.
I would like to see this forum continue as part of the new association either by remaining with Matt and linked from the new site or if matt was agreeable move the hosting to the new site. Matt does not as far as i'm aware administer the site as far as restricting what is placed within the forum, i would like to see however some spam control.

It has in part provided some of the ideas being floated for "The Association" being considered i.e meetings and event blogs but due to its nature i.e a database it does not make easy viewing. Filtering for information i find also poor.

I support the concept of forming a Swallow Boats Association and would be willing to provide some time and effort to make this happen and for ongoing support.

Very much in favour of everything web based, definitely not facebook or any other such social meeting site.

I have run a quick search on domain names and the following are available at present.

swallowyachtsassociation.org   
swallowboatsassociation.net   
swallowboatsassociation.co.uk   
swallowboatsassociation.org.u k   
swallowboatsassociation.info
swallowboatsassociation.biz   
swallowboatsassociation.me.uk   
swallowboatsassociation.eu   
swallowboatsassociation.mobi   
swallowboatsassociation.co   
swallowboatsassociation.org

The offer of initial technical setup from Jonathon i believe would be most welcome and very quickly we could have a domain,a live site with some content and a link to the existing forum. Entering information into the site wil initially have to be controlled by a nominated few, entry into the forum should remain as present i.e members only.

Peter

[jonno]

I get a lot out of the forum so welcome ideas for a web-based association.

We already have this forum in which we associate.  So do we need to reinvent the wheel?  I recognise that the forum may have some minor shortcomings.  But would a way ahead be to work with Matt to improve the existing forum?

Perhaps I'm just making Andy's point (above) again.

John

[Matthew P]

Very much in favour of all that has been said about an informal web-based non-association association. 

Would it be possible to include an easy-to-update, easy-to-search Venue Database for members to show where they plan to sail and when, searchable by member (or boat) name, location and future date?

Would there be any legal or insurance complications if such a Venue Database was available to promote informal gatherings?

Matthew

[Jonathan Stuart]

If the association does nothing more than provide a forum then I agree it would be reinventing the wheel and hence unecessary. But I think it should do a lot more than that and also have a forum. I'm not sure how things would pan out if the association has a forum as well as this one...that is something to discuss with Matt.

I *think* that if the "venue database" was about a way of putting people together who fancy a sail then there shouldn't be any insurance issues. I believe it is only if this becomes a formal organisation event that the organisation could become liable. For me that is a key reason why this association should be an informal community thing rather than something more formal.

Jonathan

[Jonathan Stuart]

A quick PS to my last post.

Re liability & insurance, I believe if we are sailing as individuals then we are individually liable and our own 3rd party insurance should be relied upon; if we sail in an organised event then the organiser could be liable, hence we need to ensure the venue database is clearly just about putting like-minded people together.

Re Matt, he is absolutely supportive of their being an association. One reason is that is makes good business sense - a thriving association is a great advert and, for example, I'm sure the Drascombe Assoc does more than anyone else to promote that brand.

We now have a web site in development and that is going well. A number of people have said they would be prepared to help. Any help is very welcome, however small, because this needs to be a community effort. If anyone wants to contribute then can they contact me by email at jonathan[at]jdstuart.com?

[Graham W]

A belated expression of support for the non association association.  And for Johan's Stockholm Archipelago idea.

[Tony]

Swallowboat Owners Association? 

Bearing in mind all that has been said above about such a thing being an informal, loose association of like-minded people, who could object?

Errr.... but what is it FOR?   Share my paranoia for a moment:-

Would it achieve anything new  that the present forum cannot?
 If we are all such individualists why do we want an association in the first place?  .....and what the heck is a non-association association when it’s at home?

 If events are organised will they be just for Swallowboat owners?  (Would they end up as One-design races for those with the right kind of BayRaider ? ) 
 If open to all types of small  boats would we be only stealing trade from the DCA and OGA trailer section ....or providing them with healthy competition? 
What would a massive, co-ordinated  entry of Swallowboats do to the spirit of such events as Sea Fair Haven or the Semaine du Golfe? 
Do we want to be a pressure group?
Then again:-
If you want a repository for information (cruising notes,  modifications/improvements, photos, good ideas,  etc , etc.)  you will need a searchable database with a decent front end to navigate your way through it all.
If you want a diary of events it needs to be able to cope with more than one event  at a time and flag up conflicts with other events. Even non-boat related ones.

  I don’t see how you can do all this without some form of administrative structure.  Once its up and running, who gets to run it? Someone has to decide what is posted and what isn’t....and organise discount schemes with the local brewers.  That will be OK as long as its someone non-censorious and fair minded. Someone like us, I hear you say?  One willing volunteer.  Good! Job done.   TWO willing volunteers? That means an election of officers:   
Commodore, Vice-commodore,  secretary, treasurer, IT manager...  Here come the committee men and I’m running for the door! 
NOW where’s your non-association association got to?
Perhaps a dictatorship would be more efficient – but be careful what you wish for. (See photo)

A  Swallowboats Association could be absolutely wonderful, time will tell, so let us give it a fair go....  but the most wonderful   thing is this:

 If you don’t like it you don’t have to join.

[Craic]

To start a dedicated association of Swallowboaters, I do not think that it is really necessary in order to achieve all the objectives listed above. These things are easy to set up, but impossible to put down if they go the way many other assocs have gone after a while: Self-righteous, protective, political, exclusive and aged grumpy.
I would be extremely sorry to ever see Swallowboaters go the same old way, and I certainly would not wish to be part of that.
Swallowboats are innovative, try to be innovative too when it comes to tieing the users closer together. This is 2012 and not 1970.

Having said that, I however agree that this present Swallowboats forum facility is poorly suited for the purpose. At the very least it requires a spam guard, more sections, and some proper search facility. With these mods however it would serve very well as a bracket for all Swallowboaters worldwide.

[Tony]

Hello, Claus. Good to hear from you.  (Where have you been?)

We need your analytical skills at this juncture.

 I have just wasted 400 words  (and a stupid picture) to barely hint at what you’ve just summed up in 3 short paragraphs!

I agree  totally with what you say.
However, to get Lewis Media Inc. to upgrade the present forum would presumably cost money.  Even so, I think that would be preferable to a forum remote from the Swallowboats  site – especially if that new site is going to have RULES!   
I am willing, in fact, to put my money where my mouth is (for once) and offer Matt and Swallowboats 50% of my long standing ‘BayRaider Expo fund’  to help defray the expense – though quite what he will find to do with a whole ten quid I am not sure.

[Jonathan Stuart]

Everyone who has commented so far has a healthy cynisism for clubs/associations, hence the *tongue in cheek* phrace of a "non-association association". However, there seems to be an interest in a better forum, a searchable database of information/articles and an online diary of informal events. That's all straightforward but it's not core to Swallow Boats' business (bearing in mind the BayRaider picture on the SB home page contains an advert for the 2009 London Boat Show I don't think the forum will be updated any time soon :-) and that's absolutely no criticism of Matt) so either we stay as-is or do something.

I think we can do something without it being a dictatorship or beaurocratic, after all this is 2012 and not 1970! And if we can't then there's nothing lost. Web sites can support community contributions and moderation. Technical administration is required but that should just keep the wheels turning and isn't a moderation or censorship function. If non-one contributes then the thing dies (or never takes off); if no-one volunteers to administer the site when the current volunteers give-up then the thing dies. We can do all that without needing a chairman, secretary, etc, and if we don't handle money then there's no treasurer either and without them there's no committee and then no elections and AGMs and policitics, etc.

As an side, I don't see this as competition to the DCA or OGA, or anyone else. Personally, the latter probably won't let me in with the one piece mast on the BRe :-) and I am a member of the DCA but would like to be involved with something specific to Swallow Boats as well.

This may all come to nothing but I think it's worth a shot. No-one has to get involved and if they don't then there's nothing lost and if they do then it could be good!