Swallow Boats Association?

[Graham W]

Welcome back, Claus.

Anyone who has the technical skills to post to this forum while still a guest must surely have a solution to some of the shortcomings of the current forum set-up.

Any ideas on how to do a retaliatory strike against Oakley Canada?

[Jeremy]

I agree that all that's really needed is a working forum, preferably with some form of reasonably tight membership checking to avoid the incessant attack of spammers.

This forum software is a very old and flaky version of a free package that's been around for a while now.  Just updating to the current release of the software would remove most of the niggles I suspect we all have with it.

My guess is that Matt is too busy to look after this forum, so perhaps someone with a bit of knowledge about these things could volunteer to help out?  Once set up on a more stable version of Simple Machines, with all the existing content transferred over, then keeping things running smoothly and getting rid of the occasional spammer could be undertaken by a couple of volunteer moderators.  I've done the moderation bit on another forum and it's not hard work, just a matter of keeping an eye open each day for the odd rogue posting and deleting it, together with perhaps blocking their IP if they are persistent.

This forum could then form the basis for a "non-association", perhaps with a dedicated area for organising get-togethers, formal or otherwise.  It's an approach that works well for the HBBR, who are thriving since the switch to a reasonably good forum set up (in their case Nabble).  AFAIK, there is very little administrative effort in keeping the HBBR forum up and running, although I believe there was a concerted bit of effort by a couple of gifted members who set it up.

[Craic]

I find Jeremy's proposal very helpful. I did not know that there are improved versions of this forums Simple Machines software readily available -FOC btw-, including some spam protection add-ons.
Jeremy's proposal also includes a solution for this existing forum which just cannot be abandoned and left as is as it would remain as another old torso, not fit for Matt or beast,
and with Jeremy's solution also all old content here would be provided for.
But sorry, I myself cannot help. I know zero about web hosting. My appearances here as guest are not miracles, just loopholes.

[Clem Freeman]

I'm happy to act as a moderator. No experience with web front end stuff but have done 20 years as a UNIX admin until I retired.

[Craic]

Many thanks Clem,
and many thanks -again- Jeremy, for your offer of admin help.

With your active involvement, pending Matt's permission, it looks like this forum could really be brought up to scratch, and be maintained properly for a while.

Jonathan, I know you mean well, but I would rather not rush into a new and separate "Swallowboats Owners Association" at this stage. Let us see and experience for a while what the updated forum can do for us in future, below the threshold of starting a new one.

Maybe we can do small adjustments too. For instance, we can rename this forum from Swallow Boats Forum, which sounds a bit commercial, to "Swallowboaters Forum", and a subline: "This forum is maintained and loosely moderated by users of Swallowboats boats, and serves as intermediate "Non-Association"- Association for all interested in, or actively building, or using, or having used one or several Swallowboats boats. Signing up to it is free, all users of other similar boats are welcome to join in the discussion, and no censorship will be exerted, ever. In case, if you have read this far, we consider you must be interested enough, so do consider yourself a member, and join in the forum and fun actively."

[Clem Freeman]

Some censorship will always be required if only to remove those posts that are offensive or potentially break the law in thier content. Luckily I've seen very little on any sailing sites unlike the motoring based ones I've been on.

[Jonathan Stuart]

If Matt can/will upgrade this forum (members could moderate but I'm sure we wouldn't get - and shouldn't want - server access so Matt needs to do that) then that's great, but I still prefer Jeremy's comparison with the UKHBBR rather than sticking with just a forum.

That is far more than a forum and while a forum is good for chat it is no longer the best for publishing information and organising events, etc. There's a lot more to community websites now than forums and I think we could do more, e.g. a site with forum, blog, interactive events diary, static pages and a search function that covers all of those.

[Andy Dingle]

Im sure its just me .. But I am now confused - easily done I know...

Are we going for an association or just sticking with what we got with an upgraded and more secure forum?

My tuppeny worth is that as some of the guys have volunteered to set up a separate website from Swallow Boats - and even acquiring a domain name (?) - administered without too much (or any) officialdom that seems to me we all abhor. Then I think we should go for it.
As long as it doesnt cost any individual anything, apart from their time, then I cant see what harm could be done and it could work out very well for all Swallow Boat Owners. If it dies through lack of interest or input we havent lost anything.

Things like:
Photo's of owners boats.
Links to blogs.
Calendars of whose sailing where and when - forgive me Peter Cockerton for citing you, but Peter had an excellent idea last year of a 'shared' google calendar, that we could input when we would be sailing at Rutland - This idea could be adapted and updated by all of us so if we want to sail in company (or crew for some one else on a different boat) we just post it up on the net.
A register of SB boat models with brief history of their evolution for interest to us all.
Current news of new boat development - with Matts cooperation - free advertising for him!
Input from our friends in Australia, the US and other exotic places around the world where SB boats are increasingly popping up.
Home builders views, progress etc.
Future sailing events - Swedish Raid springs to mind (am up for that one) - with info such as hotels, campsites, pubs etc (How do you get to Sweden by ferry? - only way I've seen is via Denmark then drive the rest).
Not to mention a spam free forum for people to ask questions, discuss matters, technical issues or just plain old fashioned Help!

The list of stuff that could be put up is endless - none of which could feasibly be done on the current owners site as I see it.

And as has been pointed out, this site is often sadly dated - OK with me as long as Matt keeps designing and building! But prospective owners would like to see more up to date information and current owners views. I certainly would have done when I was first considering a Bayraider - indeed I am now considering a BayCruiser - and would love access to impartial info from other owners.

Thats how I see it at this stage. I really think we have the opportunity to forward this for the good and benefit of us all - and the Swallow Boat classes of boat in particular. It would be a shame to let it pass us by.

Thoughts?


Andy

BR12 Psalter

[Peter Cockerton]

Non association Association, i kept stum on this so as not to make myself look stupid, clearly we have members with widely differnet views. Some believe the existing website with it's forum can be tweeked to resolve the issues they have in mind, others have a vision which cannot be met with just the forum database and site pages that exist at present. The way forward is to decide and agree on the requirements of the association in a clear and consise form and then to see if the existing site can meet them or whether a new site is required. We also have the problem of members understanding the technical implications of what is envolved. All web sites are hosted on a server, this could be Matt's own machine or more likely he pays for a hosting service. The web site once designed is uploaded to the server, the website is not just text and images, in this case programming skills are required to service the simple machine forum. To make changes to the site a security username and password is required, with a database third part skills are also often required. Clearly the existing web site is not Matt's first priority and at best it is a mix of commercial interests and members interests. As Jonathon has detailed his vision of the association site is far more than what exists on the current site and we must not squander his offer on building an assoction site lightly, if this was being done commercially we would be looking at 2-3 thousand pounds of developement time and effort.

So getting back to making an informed decision we need to list what were looking for and make a comparison of existing Swallow Boats Site and the new association site. At some point an input from Matt is required on his views on making available the data held within the current forum to port into a possible new forum.

So let's start the list of requirements and prioritise them into must have's
Nice to have and icing on the cake have's so to speak we can then hopefully agree on the list and see if the Swallow Boats site and forum can meet these requiremnets or whether we need to introduce new technology.

Having been a systems manager for some time and the always grass is greener with the next drop of software only to find some problems were resolved and others introduced i'm always wary, but we must not squander this very generous offer by Jonathon because believe me it will require many hours of dedicated effort and knowledge to get this off the ground.   

That's my view

Peter

[Craic]

buy oxycodone europe  online doctor prescription oxycodone . how to buy pain meds online oxycodone uses  5mg oxycodone order Oxycodone fedex delivery 15 mg roxy oxycodone used for . oxycodone no rx mail order oxycodone 30 mg buy pain pills can i order oxycodone online. oxycodone order oxycodone with apap oxycodone 30 mg price roxycodone side effects .

[Jonathan Stuart]

A failed SwB assoc or a struggling website would make quite a splash in the industry and in the interested public.

If an assoc. fails through lack of support then by definition no-one will care and non-owners probably won't even notice. However, rather than fail there could just be very little activity but if it provides some of the things Andy listed then it would be a worthwhile resource for current and prospective owners.

I still think that's better than having just a forum but the main issue with the forum update are the IT issues Peter talked about.

[Peter Cockerton]

Quote from Craic

Peter,
a plank may well be offered free of charge but still it may  not be wise to walk it. Matters more what lies at the end of the plank, heaven or hell.


Claus, using your analogy of the plank can we not apply thought to initially judging if the plank is likely to be wide enough, long enough, strong enough etc etc before we consider walking over it. Members have expressed views some positive others questioning the need for a new direction. The way forward is to agree on what were looking for as an association portal, see if this can be achieved with Matt's business site if not and we are passionate about having the shortfalls do something else.

Peter

[Craic]

There have been several mentions here in this thread about the UKHBBR website being a shining example. http://ukhbbr.wordpress.com/

Actually, it seems to prove quite the opposite. If you look at it's homepage which announces "Watch for our 2011 meet programme announcement in the near future." you realise the thing is not a success at all and has fallen into discontinuation for over a year. This announces the thing is dead, and yes, one does notice.

Save Swallowboating from a similar fate. Do not start something unless you can guarantee it'll be sustainable and will thrive. Because, if it will not, it'll do damage to Swallowboating and consequently to all of us.

None of the objectives quoted so far do really require a new and competing website. All can be done here, even with the current software.

[Jeremy]

There have been several mentions here in this thread about the UKHBBR website being a shining example. http://ukhbbr.wordpress.com/

Actually, it seems to prove quite the opposite. If you look at it's homepage which announces "Watch for our 2011 meet programme announcement in the near future." you realise the thing is not a success at all and has fallen into discontinuation for over a year. This announces the thing is dead, and yes, one does notice.

Save Swallowboating from a similar fate. Do not start something unless you can guarantee it'll be sustainable and will thrive. Because, if it will not, it'll do damage to Swallowboating and consequently to all of us.

None of the objectives quoted so far do really require a new and competing website. All can be done here, even with the current software.

First off, please get your facts right.  The HBBR structure as a suggestion was made by me, and at no time did I put it forward as a, quote, "shining example".

Secondly, I used it solely, and specifically, as an example of a successful "non-organisation.  Success, in this respect, being a loose group of people who get together for excellent events, get a fair bit of representation in the small boating press and who form a mutually very supportive group.

Finally, the last element of the way the HBBR runs that I quoted as a positive aspect is the forum (http://uk-hbbr-forum.967333.n3.nabble.com/) which I (an others) fully accept has taken over from the old Wordpress website that you linked to as the hub for the organisation.

If you are going to have a poke at someone making a well-intentioned suggestion, then at least get your facts straight before posting.

[Jonathan Stuart]

Given the activity on the UKHBBR forum (without the help of oakleycanada, etc) and the reports in Water Craft, etc, they seem far from dead and have a level of activity that I think many here would enjoy.

However, I'm certain no-one here wants an association for the sake of it, so if we can do in the current web site/forum the sort of things Andy mentioned then let's do it.

Claus - what's your thoughts on how we do this with the current software?

I'm interested to hear other ways forward but my concern is that we can do very little without Matt's help and when I discussed this with Matt he specifically said that neither he nor Charlotte have time to do this hence him wanting owner volunteers to do this.