Oil, Varnish or Woodstain?

[Matthew P]

Has anyone got experience, good or bad, of Deks Oyle or Varnol?

I am re-finishing the gunwales, rubbing strakes, centreboard cap etc on my GRP BR20 and intended using Sadolin Ultra as recommended in the April edition of Classic Boat.  I used Sikkens Cetol Marine light on my pine spars which is fine except in my tireless pursuit of an idle life I d like something longer lasting and more robust. I have read Iain Oughtreds positive comments on oil finishes in his excellent Boat Building Manual and I am happy with a non-gloss finish.

I apologise if mentioning trade names starts a tsunami of junk mail. If it does then I shall start using 3 instead of e and 5 instead of s.  I m already struggling to avoid apostrophes.

Matthew

[Michael Rogers]

On my Storm Petrel Cadenza over the past 6 years (or is it seven?), I've used Rustin or Colron Danish Oil: dead simple and quick to apply, but you do have to do it twice a season to keep it looking reasonably decent. I agree, robustness is desirable.

Looking at my workshop shelf in the light of your comment, Matthew, I find I've got an unused tin of Cetol Marine which I can't even remember buying - a bit worrying, that, except I've given up bothering about forgetting things. For my Trouper 12 (and I am actually inching towards That Stage at last), I plan to use Seacoat. In fact, egged on by the Seacoat people, I plan to use it not only on hardwood and spars, but also as a final coat on the aluminium battens (junk rig) once I have chemically cleaned and coated them (as a - I hope - cheaper alternative to anodising which costs nearly FOUR times as much as the aluminum tubes do in the first place). They assure me (they would, wouldn't they) that durability is Seacoat's second name.

So, I can't pass on experience, because I haven't got any yet, but I'll try to remember (and will probably forget) a progress report in due course.

Did you hear about the elderly couple, pulled over for speeding? They explained that they had to drive fast, to get to their destination before they forgot where it was they wanted to go. (I'm allowed to crack jokes like that. Could be 'poor taste' for you younger people - and it won't be funny for me either, for much longer.)

Michael

[Tony]

Hi, Matthew and Michael.
Sikkens Marine is no more. It is now International Woodskin. Same stuff, different label. (Only available in one shade, I believe. If true, how poor!)
I have given up on the fuss and bother of traditional varnish (whatever may be said about  Zen and the art of yacht maintenance) preferring to sail rather than muck about with tack cloths and nibbing off. 
I've been using  Sikkens Cetol 7 now for 6 years for its UV protection and durable finish. Widely available at discount prices, available in numerous shades and seems nearly as good as the more expensive stuff, ie on clean, bare wood 3 or 4 coats will easily last a couple of years and where friction rubs it off it's simple to touch up.  (Check out www.yachtpaint.com    and   http://sikkens.trade-decorating.co.uk/products/sikkens_cetol_filter_7_plus.jsp for info. )

Varnol contains pine tar – which is considered to be a health risk (carcinogen) by some sources.  It is also fairly expensive if you have a deal of wood to protect.  Oh, yes. Nearly forgot to mention - It works! It penetrates quite deeply into the wood.
This might be a cheap alternative...
I've been using a sheep's lanolin product from a well known Aussie supplier for a few years now. I use the thick grease on the tow ball and spray the thinner liquid all over the shop. e.g. Waterproofing leather, canvas and other fabrics, on hand tools to protect the metal and help preserve the wooden bits. On the outboard – engine and prop.  It puts the shine back on old gel coat and I've found that, sprayed onto the hull, it even has a bit of an antifouling effect for a few weeks.  Soft wood I have sprayed  (a fence post) showed  penetration up to 1 cm  when sawn - more on end grain. None of this  a scientific  investigation  but I think it is a useful product (see http://www.swallowboats.co.uk/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,28/expv,0/topic,518.0  )

[Graham W]

Swallow Boats used to use Akzo Nobel's Sikkens Cetol for all its wood parts, pine flavour for mast and spars, mahogany flavour for strakes, thwarts etc.  I have nice large pots of both that will last me a while but presumably SB need to find new standard substitutes.
 
I used to work for an offshoot of Akzo Nobel in a fairly senior capacity back in the previous millenium.  Even then their decision-making processes lacked logic, salience and basic common sense. Their HR decisions were often completely bonkers.  Not that I'm twisted and bitter about it, of course.

[Tony]

but presumably SB need to find new standard substitutes.

Hi, Graham.

I dont think Swallow Boats use the Sikkens Cetol Marine (now “International Woodskin”) - Matt certainly didnt on Four Sisters.  He used Sikkens Cetol Filter 7. 
This product is intended for garden furniture and the like but works very well on the boat, even in the Ionian  summers.  It’s dead easy to touch up, which is just as well as it doesn’t have the best abrasion resistance  (Galvanised  anchor chain scraped over the gunnels will shift most things!) and still comes in a range of shades (including Ebony, for people set on a tarred workboat  look).  Why they don’t do a Pine shade in International Woodskin beats me. Its supposed to be specially formulated for the Marine environment, whatever that means, and therefore superior to Filter 7 for the job .... it was probably a decision taken in the light of thousands of pounds worth of market research –  asking people who own superyachts and wouldn’t know one end of a paintbrush from the other – or perhaps someone went on an Business  Statistics Course and read a book about Significance Tests ?

HR?  In my (limited, thank goodness) experience of HR managers the word that comes to mind is “fantastic”.  Some are fantastically good and others fantastically bad, the latter displaying  all the Emotional Intelligence of a sea cucumber and all  sympathy with their personnel of a Viking in a Monastery.  Bitter?  Twisted?  Hardly new emotions in the educational sphere, for example, when the Ofsted chief, Michael Wilshaw  is quoted in a Guardian interview as saying  "If anyone says to you that 'staff morale is at an all-time low', you know you are doing something right."   If he says it, how many more of the  closed-minded,  authoritarian, ignorant kids who seem to be running the world, are thinking it?  As an ex-teacher I claim the right to say that our education systems worldwide are  failing badly.  How else do you explain the quality of leadership to be seen?

Sorry....rant over!  Who set me off.....?

[Graham W]

Tony,

I had a look at my tins and you are quite right - they are Sikkens Cetol Filter 7, which is still available in the original flavours.  Despite this, I have not changed my opinion of Akzo Nobel......

[Tony]

Despite this, I have not changed my opinion of Akzo Nobel......

...nor should you.
Check out their website:-
www.akzonobel.com/uk/
It bangs on and on about their Values,  Brand Strengths and Market Positioning  -  but barely a mention of paint!  Big corporations can afford this sort of self-aggrandisement. They just bung a few bob on a can of Dulux mat emulsion and that pays for the fancy office furniture.  (Oh! Dont  forget!   If your product is for boat owners think of a reasonable price, then double it. Surely they can afford more than 20 quid for half a litre of woodstain!)

[George Campbell]

Has anyone got experience, good or bad, of Deks Oyle or Varnol?

I am re-finishing the gunwales, rubbing strakes, centreboard cap etc on my GRP BR20 and intended using Sadolin Ultra as recommended in the April edition of Classic Boat.  I used Sikkens Cetol Marine light on my pine spars which is fine except in my tireless pursuit of an idle life I d like something longer lasting and more robust. I have read Iain Oughtreds positive comments on oil finishes in his excellent Boat Building Manual and I am happy with a non-gloss finish.

I apologise if mentioning trade names starts a tsunami of junk mail. If it does then I shall start using 3 instead of e and 5 instead of s.  I m already struggling to avoid apostrophes.

Matthew

Yes, having experience and accordingly would suggest you vanish. You will get good result with long lasting effect.

[John Davis]

Matthew, 
Years ago we used Deks Olie on a family cruising boat.  It took quite a few coats to build, you had to be very careful over runs as they stained if not cleaned up double quick, and it always seemed to require touch up during the season, on the corners of rubbing strakes.  I would go for Cetol Filter 7 which has shown much more resilience in my hands.
Cheers,
John

[Matthew P]

I have now tried various options:

Following a positive review from a recent well-known posh yachtie magazine I tried Sadolin Ultra on freshly sanded hardwood and plywood.  It took about a week to dry and even then did not seem robust so I removed it and reverted to half a can of Sikkens Cetol Marine (Light) left over from previous years which was just about enough for 3 coats on my lightly re-sanded spars and oars. The result is OK but has a slight orange tint.

I also tried Deks Olje on the hardwood centreboard cap, gunwales, rubbing strake etc, all rubbed down to bare wood, finishing with 320 grit paper. This was before I read your response John. More expensive than whisky (30pds a litre)but nice stuff to work with, goes on easily and gives a satisfying finish, at least while fresh and also smells good.  One has to get ones pleasure where one can. Luckily I used masking tape, so runs and stains did not trouble me although I was concerned it might creep under the masking tape - but it didnt.  Half a litre was enough for all the hardwood on my GRP BR20. I now wait to see if I need to keep feeding it as John suggests. I keep the boat under a cover when not in use to protect it from UV, so hopefully it may last longer.

Following Tonys rave review of Lanolin and a website that makes it seem this is Australias true Golden Nectar (should be at the price)I could not resist and have ordered some.  Might try it to see if it will waterproof the dog.  If it does not work I will suggest our HR department try it as hair spray.

Matthew

[Julian Swindell]

I use Sikkens Filter 7 on my hardwood, and it works quite well. One coat at the start of the season last pretty well till the autumn. In the past, on other boats, I have always just rubbed in linseed oil, which also seems to work and is very easy to keep fresh. I just kept a bottle on board and gave the woodwork a wipe any time I was bobbing at anchor on a sunny day. But I am not a stickler for fine finishes. I bash into things so often on my boats that any fine finish is marred within a few hours of the start of the season.